Minty

So I shelled out my money for this matrix game on Friday and have spent most of the weekend playing it (and I mean most of the weekend like I always do when I get anew game so 15 hours +) and was at first very disapointed. the comparision with SC1 is fair, not just the hexes but the little detils, transport not amphibs with same D day problems, research that once you spend on goes on all war, no diplomacy, weird long supply lines, near instant build times. it is basically a total copy of SC1.....but wait SC1 was agreat game and they have done some interesting things with it.. for a start the map is big, bigger than SC2 byfar and it makes for few more battle options. units can't attack and then move but if enemy units take too big a kicking they retreat and the attacker can follow up. takes some getting use dot but it ends up like some historial battle where a crucial breakthroug is exploited. As a result of this and the extra space the benelux /France invasion is lot more fun. and Barborassa is great, with encirclements, breakthroughs etc.. But the big differences are the resources. PP (MMP) which works the same basically but also manpower and Oil . everytime you use a motor unit, you use oil and guess what ? If you use more than you making then your tanks and planes stop working. you have to plan you offensives very carefully and it really puts the pressure on the nazis after a while and the russians at first before they can build up a big Oil reserve. manp;ower is good too, keep making units all you like and reinforcing but there are only so many young germans and brits available, lose too many and the fighting strengths of your troops starts to drop. convoys are fun though, convoy ships (like transports) with MPP (sorry PP) are sent automatically along the routes and if they arrive then the other contry gets the money. And of course the germans try to damage them as much as possible. they might start with 40 PP and you can hit them with subs, luftwaffe, Tirpitz whatever you like. Each hit reduces the PP the ship is carrying and it takes them about 3 or 4 turns to cross atlantic to UK or Russia. makes a really good battle of atlantic, the axis subs are rubbish at first and too few in number against France and UK but once you buy a couple, build another ship or two , operate out of Frnech ports( naval units a bit cheaper than originally in SC ) then you have real fight at sea, something with SC1 or SC2 has never really got right. But it seems very linear. with no diplomacy and semingly the USA , Romania, Italy joing historically regardless of what is going on. It;s just watch the axis have bigger guns and better stuff as they take over 2/3 of the map then run out of men and oil and see if they can take the last bit before they die. It seems they have tweaked it to force it toplay historically. This may have it's fans and Blashy's school fo histrocial gamers will like that aspect but it doesn;t really allow for too much Legend style madness. Early days though. The victory conditions seem to strongly favour the Allies and the game carries on until 1945 and whoever has the most capitals win. Unless Adolf takes all of Russia and washington he has to play for along game. All while the oil and manpower makes for tense play it is a crude way to reign in the german war machine from aboutt 43 onwards and even the field. Overall it is a very good game. But would I trade mt copy of SC2 for it? Not for all the oil in Maikop. The AI does seem a little sharper than SC2 but I love SC2 for the H to H games anyway. Hope this is of interest to anyone thinking of spending the cash.

Arado, you're right about the 1600lb (still nearly a tonne!) of explosives on the V2 not being that much. but the missile was huge and travelling straight down from sub orbit at Mach 5+. That's a hell of a lot of kinetic energy. I've had the misfortune to see 3 urban bombsites. the second the most well known, ground zero in Manhattan. Well a V2 had a lot more destructive power than a Boeing 737, just the nazis weren't daft enough to pilot them on top of Big ben. The second is far less well known but applicable. it was the last IRA bomb set off in london ( by an IRA splinter group that rejected the peace process) in Ealing, west london, about a week before the Sept 11th attcaks. A small van ( miniwan / truck) with about a 200lbs of not especially HE from homemade fertiliser. It went off about 2am in the morning on Ealing high street near where I was staying at the time and amazingly no one was killed. but it wrecked the high street, a year later they were still repairing buildings and rebuilding shops. The third was the wreckage of a in London 2 year ago from a one man carrying around 20lbs of very poor explosive. He and 3 of his evil friends killed over 50 peopl and wounded hundreds more. those recent attacks (like the Madrid bombings also and what happens in Iraq daily) were especailly devastating because they wer surprise attacks that were made on a unsuspecting population that did not stay in shelters eveyrnight, or sandbag and tape windows. They also were accurately placed in a way no WW2 weapon could have been. My point is that if one, just one, V2 landed in a modern city on Europe or USA now it would cause a huge mess. The germans missed with most of theirs and only really sent them over for a couple of months. with another year's research and aerial intelligence of where they were hitting they would have been quite capable of rendering Southampton or Portsmouth quiet unusable for any D Day. Rockets should be a seperate tech and if researched to a higher level, earlier in the game, are both a strategic and tactical option.

Blashy wrote "and Rockets were not used for damage at all, they were used as a demoralizing weapon. They knew full well the damaged caused would be very little" My dad grew up after the war in London near a street that had been hit by a V2. Whole street completely gone and everyone in it, regardless of whether they were in shelters or not. left a huge crater you could play football in. If they had had enough of them and started in 42 or 43, not 44 when the Allies could overrun the missile sites ,then the admin centre of the brirish empire would have been wiped off the map. maybe not a total war winner for adolf but a major spanner in the works for all the allies. Soviets included.

Obviously you can counter with Tanks of your own but they are not as versatile in other theatres. Airpower is very flexible especially if you get Long range +1 or more. Also as long as you reguallry reinforce them and keep them at max strength they will gain experience quickly, very soon they will tkae little or no damage against Uncle Joe's tanks still take 2, 3 or more strength points off the. your Air units can stay safely away in good supply near a HQ, hit the tank a couple of times to reduce his strength but just as importantly his morale. Then your troops will find him much easier to take on. You can either overwhelm him with AT infantry or your own tanks which will not take as much damage and can hopefullly still be useful / easily repaired to fight again fully fit soon. A fast corp or tow with Antitank that is in good supply can often finish off a tank that has been pounded by the air first. you may use up less MPP points this way than just slamming your tanks into his and you have more units that will be more flexible. all that said half a dozen King tiger tanks sort out most problems with the Red Army, just damned expensive!

Ah Seamonkey, as you argued so well on the Matrix games forum, the beauty of SC2 is the huge number of strategic directions. effective early prosecution of Barbarossa isn't the only way forward. I;ve won against good and experience Human players by focusing the Axis forces on knocking out the UK, if you do it hard and fast before the USA can intervene you can afford a gentle almost non effetive 41 USSR invasion because in 42 the whole Nazi war machine can head east. that's why I love the game.but anyway back to Liam's tutorial. early 1939 /1940 decision can have dire consequences prior to Barby especailly if the Axis try going to sea while the french are about, or make the wrong expensive decisions with Spain or spend too much money upgrading / operating units that would be fine walking or will only be doing garrison duty or taking on North african tirbesman with sharpened mangoes Axis should be buying lots of units in the early game though , corps, planes, tanks, whatever you pick you should be really spending a lot of cash on buying units. worry about the upgrades later, they don't need Tigers ,jets or IW3 against the brits, French or minors early. but manpower enables you to do a lot while you still remain supreme in the early game (39 to 42) at least so you can concentrate massive firepower at key points. For me I always find the Med is just as key as Barby and offers more variety from game to game.

Damn straight Super Partisans. haven't you seen Dad's Army? Captain Mannering would have kept those Nazi boys on their toes. They don't like it up 'em! I don't think the scripts are over powerful, the alternative would be a realistic 1939 Royal navy which would include about 20 cruiser units.for that matter the RAF is much smaller in the game than in real life too, UK was outnumbered in 1940 but was producing more planes in 41 than Germany just in the UK alone, not including those bought from the US. On the other hand you could script a kind of reverse pacific fleet move where the player has to say goodbye to units once singapore is attacked.

Crikey, JG looks like he is a pretty good position here. If he can keep harrassing the Axis on all fronts like this, and drag out the death throws of the USSR, he could be in with a chance. Those LR airfleets with an Allied Para or two could cause a lot of trouble in Western europe and tie up yet more Krauts. The germans sound quite stretched out. Fight to the last man JG, you can win this!

Ok, firstly the clip is extremely amusing and please enjoy it. I think it , with humour, addrsssing some of the issues of the whole Nazi image fetish. To answer your question Desert Dave: Collecting any kind of memorobilia is in itself a little odd. But oddness makes people interesting I guess. The collecting thing is a paticular male trait. Oh yes shoes, clother etc for women but obseeing to search and categorise random baseball cards, 70s punk records, etc is a guy thing. Most collectors get stuff because they like it (records, wine, violins, antique toys, star wars figures, Beatles ticket stubs from 1964) or it reminds them of something good. They liked star wars films as a kid. Or The Clash. Or they love 18th century string music.Or George Harrison. Or they yearn for time when children could be happy with a wooden spinning top. It glorifies their pet hobby. So war memorobilia is always a little odd. War is basically a bad thing. People die. For older wars I can see that it is so far removed from modern life that it just seen as, at worst a little pointless. Napoleonic musket balls etc. But WW2 is different. one it is still quite recent. two it was so devastating. and three it was clear that one side, paticularly one part of that side, the SS, were evil and despicable. Many of the collectors, in my limited experience, seem to have some sympathy with the SS. Am I suggesting that it should be forgotten ? of course not. Go to a war memorial or Holocaust musuem. But to fascinate oneself with the trinkets of mass butchery suggests something darker. Hellraiser , in jest, raises a good point. Why stop at the rabbit's foot emblem. why not the human teeth pulled by an SS office from a butchered Ukrainain Jewish baby? How much would they get on ebay? More with a faded photo of a totenkopf officer actually doing the tooth pulling I'm sure. Signed by Uber Lt Schmit. Maybe in blood. gotta be a collectors item that one. It's just history right? That's why I say you people have issues. Rambo, you suggested flagging this post. We don't agree on much but if this forum is going to turn into one where sick people talk about trading SS office badges then please get it flagged.

Sorry couldn't resist this. Follow the link for a you tube clip Admiral Denitz becoming the new fuhrer

Er.... I'm confused On the collecting SS material front you people have issues. Each to their own and all. But you have serious issues. However I strongly suggest you see the following link on You tube. Very amusing.

Germany had some effective surface raiders at the start of WW1 but these were gobbled up and hunted down by 1915. One of the only ways they coud survive was by scavenging coal, something the Oil burners 25 years later would have had much more difficulty doing., albeit the oil burners woudl have more range. And in WW1 Germany still had something of an empire ( at first) where ships could run to and arraneg colliers to come out from. It didn't last long. I read that the orginal pair of Scharnhorst and Gneasaiu actually fuelled and resupplied at French islands in the Pacific, they were so isolated the locals didn't know there was a war on and were happy to sell fuel and food. When this trick stopped working they just pretended to be British ships figuring that noone local had an up to date Jane's fighting ships 1914 to hand. It worked too.

Graf spee's limit was 72 hours I believe, If you want an example of what Naval power can achieve I have one word; the name of the most important ship ever built in the 20th century with one it's most decisive and bravest of admirals aboard. To my country's shame at the time he was German and not British, Albeit a nasty son of a bitch but he did was had to do. anyway the ship and word is: Goeben. That is naval warfare. It's actions in the first week of WW1 probbaly effected those of everyone living today in europe

I always assumed it was an IS1 tank not a T34 at Level 4.

So this game is STILL going on. We're down to about a turn a day and both exhausted. It's Sept 45 and it finally looks like there will be a winner. Unable to knock the Soviets out of the Urals,the Axis have been stretched and are just starting to snap. It's still not over but Germany's usual summer offensive ran out of steam straight awya and the Fatherland has just been breached in the West with Volonezh retaken and stalingrad cut off from the Reich, besieged by the Red Army. Death toll in this one is incredible. Never seen anything like it. 130 soviets, over 110 Germans! and the Brits have lost over 45 land units as well as the entire Royal Navy. There can't be a man under 50 or over 12 alive in Europe. Tanks have dominated with slow advances in Airfleets and early Heavy tanks on both sides. Allies airpower not huge in numbers but very focused in France and on high experience. Luftwaffe not able to dominate on both fronts. I'm still not confident to call it and the Axis could hold for a stalemate but I think we'll decide it by Spring 46. Sweden have finally entered the War (after a huge Allied order for volvos and flatpack furniture) opening yet another front for Germans to hold as Franco has just chocked on his tapas with long range US paras taking Madrid and forcing his surrender. UK economy should be a monster once the Gibraltor effect is over. If the allies do win then the turning point seems to have been the US timely reinforcement through Suez to save Alex. We shall see and I'll give you the full bloody deathtoll when it's over.

back to the post, Ok so you double the US capacity or put options. To Balance the game what are you going to do? Perhaps reducing Britain's MPP to reflect the attack on singapore and war in Burma , loss of ships there etc in 1941.

This one is just running and running. It's Summer 45 and really no end in sight. The losses are huge on all sides. It's carnage. Both sides desperately trying to find a chink in the armour of the other. It could still go both ways. I'm not even ruling out a stalemate as we've only got 2 years left! A ray of light for the allies. Their 44 offensive proved shortlived and they were kicked out of Belgium in Autumn 44 as well as losing Moscow again. The RAF and US army aircorp were forced to fly out of ther airfields as northern France was being overrun by German corps and Bradley's HQ destroyed. However a ragtag group British, American and French trops held Paris just long enough to reinforcements to beat the Gemrans back. After losing Moscow again the Red army stock a stand at some random soviet city and held against large Wehrmacht numbers. The german steamroller has finally been stopped in the east. In Spring mud Moscow has just been retaken by the communists again and this time along with Leningrad. However Stalingrad and caucasus still in Axis hands though and feeding vast amounts of Oil into the nazi factories. Italy has fallen but crack German commandos command the banks of the River Po and are blocking any entry across the alps and threaten to sweep down to install a rescued Benito back into power. Neither side can afford not to defend Northern Italy but it's a phoney war as we don't have the firepower to spare to break through such tough terrain. Spain is cut off from its fascist brothers but Allied commanders are wary of diverting any forces from the task of tying down as many German troops as possible. Fortress europe is locked down with no weak spot to penetrate. But as german losses mount will the Fuhrer be forced to pull back from defending some of his partners and captured land? Or can his huge oil reserves keep his forces dominant? Allied commander's promises to Stockholm to grant them planning permission for thousands of IKEA stores worldwide are starting to win the Swedes over and they must surely enter by Winter 45. Allied losses up to 200 land units total now!! Axis should have a large panzer reserve somewhere though of Level 5 tanks ready to punish the slighest allied mistake. The luftwaffe still reigns supreme in the east and a strong German counter is expected to break Russian resitance. It's a monster.

Good god Rambo what have you been smoking? Er Soviet satellites? The USSR collapsed over 15 years ago in case you didn't notice. That big wall thing in Germany? They smashed it down.Lots of men with mullets and bad purple tracksuits partying while listening to David Hasslehoff.Ring any bells? Communist interests? you mean Cuba? They are the only ones left these days. Can a moderator please shut this drivelling rant down please. I thought his holiday plans were bad enough. Oh and No. 26 about promoting violence? Ha Ha what happended to give War a chance. Oh the Irony. Stick to the game Rambo, you're good at that.

Best money I spent in 2006. By far. Really if you liked SC1 even a bit then SC2 will blow you away especially with the game balance so much improved since v1.01 Going back to Rambo's first point...how much is it for dinner with his lady?

Whilst there have been a lot of posts lately suggesting smaller tweaks and improvements I for one would like to commend the great HC once more as I think the balance is now (near) perfect in the game. I've been playing an absolute epic H to H game with a good friend for the last 4 months! We both know the game pretty well and used to play SC1. In earlier versions of SC2 I was pretty much able to kick his butt with some gamey moves as well as my all round brilliance by 1942 both as the evil empire or rebel alliance. This one is going to the wire. Just ending 44 and there isn't a winner, nor an end, in sight. We've tried every trick in the book and no real breakthrough. Advantage probably still to his Axis ( he has the Caucasus and lots of MPP) but western Europe is mine and the US and british grinding him down. It shows that if you get two competent players who know the game mechanics then most of the exploits can be cancelled and I do believe that finally I can say I don't think it matters which side you start with. If the game ever ends I'll do a report but highlights so far include French tanks fighting Italians in North Africa in Nov1939 forcing a winter attack on Paris by germany. Level 4 german tanks barby in 41 in one huge armoured punch resulting in USSR losing ALL it's units and Moscow in Sept 41 but coming back and recapturing moscow in spring 44 (just lost it again mind you) The total loss of the Royal Navy and Italian Navy and Kriegsmarine. Every single ship. Allied forces having 2 land units in Sept 41 in total world wide. One canadian corp and one NZ corp. all others ( ALL USSR and British) wiped out. USA came in next turn thankfully along with some rebuilds. Level 5 US tanks in France in 43. I didn't even know what the graphic looked like. Over 100+ landunits lost by each side (including around 30 or so Level 5 tanks) Succesful sealion and UK being down to 1 NZ corp defending Alex with 2 German armies in egypt. Now UK has the british isles back and Ireland, nearly all of North africa and just took Turin. Also Paris and Brussels.

Stop getting so excited. The US won't invade Iran for about a zillion reasons. Apart from their being no good reason too, ( except for WMD and i've heard that before ) Bush barely has the political strength to authorise 20,000 extra men to Iraq. Could the US invade Iran? Of course it could but only if there was the will of the american people for another war and the will to lose thousands more boys and fathers. That's not there so there will be no war. That's what makes the US a much greater nation that Iraq or Iran where leaders can wage war against the people's wishes.

Wow Bromley you get the award for super SC2 geek of the week with your engineering fort building calculations. I am genuinely impressed. My general rule of thumb is that I'm desperate enough to buy an engineer and build a fort then odds he'll be overrun and killed by the time he finishes it.

What happened in this Game then?

Ha Ha, WWIII beckons and what is the reaction? would make a good mod!! Wouldn't worry anyway, Iran is always easy, they don't even have an army when you DOW them anyway

cheers, better wrap up my outstanding games then and catch up

Hi looking to get my butt kicked by anyone who is pretty good. Might learn a few things I hope. Afraid I'm only on 1.04 as I have some other games still to wrap up. Played a fair bit of HvsH and think I'm competent but we'll see. Don't mind playing Allies or Nazis, can normally get one or maybe 2 turns in a day and timezone wise am split between Europe and US the next few weeks. email is minty at rocketmail.com