Hortlund
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Everything posted by Hortlund
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New Mod: KT wood and swamp (based on Mr. Noobie)
Hortlund replied to r0tten's topic in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
wow...simply gorgeous -
Russian Front: the Soviet Experience
Hortlund replied to Grisha's topic in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
It would be interesting to hear your source for this. Beevor, Ryan, Sennerteg, they all tell the same stories. Butchering of civilians, gang rapes, murder, torture. The scale of these crimes indicate that for your theory to be true, the entire soviet army who set foot on German soil between October 1944-May 1945 must have been temporarily out of control. These writers seem to argue that the Soviet soldiers could do pretty much what they pleased, and those Red Army officers that didnt take part in the atrocities, had no problem looking the other way. Well, there is a difference between the Einzatsgruppen and the general anti-partisan activities. While the Einzatsgruppen are in a league of their own when it comes to slaughtering civilians, regular WH and SS units did their fair share of atrocities too. The soviet atrocities stopped after the order from Stalin. I dont have the books in front of me right now, but I think it was... *sits and stare at the screen for a while, then gives up and walks into the other room to get the book* 15th May 1945. After that, soldiers of the Red Army caught raping or torturing or butchering or whatever were shot. Diciplin was restored immideately. Incidentally, the fact that the soviet raping, butchering and plundering stopped immideately after the stop-order gives a pretty clear indication as to how flawed the "Soviet atrocities were committed by troops temporarily out of control"-theory is. They were given free hands when they entered German soil. ALL the evidence speaks in that direction. Vae victis. Yes yes fine, if you want to argue over semantics we can do that. Its a bit distasteful though, in my humble opinion. Because it matters little to the victim wheter he/she is the victim of an industrialized process or the victim of an army on a killing spree. Moreover if you really really want to go down this lane, I'm going to claim that the soviet soldiers were BETTER than the Germans when it came to rape and plunder, while the Germans were BETTER at murdering and butchering...while the two armies were about even (or just as good if you want) at torturing eachother. But what is your point? The Germans killed more innocents, so therefore...what? "Quantitative and qualitative" what exactly do you mean with that? I understand quantitative, but what on earth do you mean by qualitative? What difference does it make how the criminals kill their victims? [ April 17, 2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Leutnant Hortlund ] -
Russian Front: the Soviet Experience
Hortlund replied to Grisha's topic in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Because it wouldn't be true. </font> -
Well, there are degrees of everything of cource. And while "lick my eyeballs" might not be the kinkiest thing in the world, it sure ranks among the weirdest. I mean what could she possibly get out of some guy putting his tounge in her eye? Leaving that aside, because obviously she did get something out of having a guy stick his tounge in her eye, what about me...? I dont want to know what an eye tastes like, I dont want to know what it feels like, I dont want to know. Call me conservative, but thats me.