panzermartin

I'm sure they will. They are already in sparse use I think in  first aid in mountain rescue. Personally, I'm a little disappointed how much money and tehcnology has been invested in advanced warfare, while I see our forests here burning every year and disappearing because we are using the same old tech from the 50s to extinguish fires. Air manned assets that can't fly in strong winds , night or close to the fire. I think drone tech can help immensly here, with bigger unmanned platforms flying 24h around the clock and scrambling immediately to the first sign of fire. 

I'm sure they will. They are already in sparse use I think in  first aid in mountain rescue. Personally, I'm a little disappointed how much money and tehcnology has been invested in advanced warfare, while I see our forests here burning every year and disappearing because we are using the same old tech from the 50s to extinguish fires. Air manned assets that can't fly in strong winds , night or close to the fire. I think drone tech can help immensly here, with bigger unmanned platforms flying 24h around the clock and scrambling immediately to the first sign of fire. 

Yes of course! In life or death situations like this you either evolve or die. And in a lot other aspects of modern life. Let's hope that the infantryman will be banned from the battlefield or be more protected in the future at least... 
Still from a philosophical/lifestyle point of view I'd prefer less evolving per milsecond in general . I always have a greater time in my tent or hammoch than in high tech overpriced massive resorts destroying a forest or beach, even if I can afford them. But most people think, this is evolution.. 

I'm sure they will. They are already in sparse use I think in  first aid in mountain rescue. Personally, I'm a little disappointed how much money and tehcnology has been invested in advanced warfare, while I see our forests here burning every year and disappearing because we are using the same old tech from the 50s to extinguish fires. Air manned assets that can't fly in strong winds , night or close to the fire. I think drone tech can help immensly here, with bigger unmanned platforms flying 24h around the clock and scrambling immediately to the first sign of fire. 

Back to warfare, I think this from the drone /pantsir duel posted here some pages ago? But from the pantsir crew POV. 
https://t.me/CyberspecNews/32236

"Tiger" somewhere near Vinnytsia )))
 

I'm sure they will. They are already in sparse use I think in  first aid in mountain rescue. Personally, I'm a little disappointed how much money and tehcnology has been invested in advanced warfare, while I see our forests here burning every year and disappearing because we are using the same old tech from the 50s to extinguish fires. Air manned assets that can't fly in strong winds , night or close to the fire. I think drone tech can help immensly here, with bigger unmanned platforms flying 24h around the clock and scrambling immediately to the first sign of fire. 

Lol imagine Russia dismantling and moving the factories again beyond the Urals 

A tale as old as time itself!
 

I think drone swarms can prolong a war or guerilla infinitely. A few organized people will be able to hold a whole division this way. Imagine the US occupation in Iraq facing swarms of guerilla drones. I hope the anti drone technology advances soon enough though... I don't really like this nerdy way of warfare. Especially for the poor infantry that dies with no chance to fight back. A 13yr old kid from his basement, can take out a platoon of experienced battle hardened veterans. If there is a chance to become a veteran in 2023 battlefield that is... 
In general our world is becoming progressively nerdy. From war to movies, to AI art and music. There will be less warriors, true spiritual people, artists, musicians in the next generation, and in general less people that inspire other people. Only algorithm servants. Progress? Maybe. A more coherent collective humanity for the loss of individual quality. 
Ok sorry for the phllilosophical off topic. 
 

It's funny because according to western media Putin has been dying since Feb 2022 but Biden looks in worse shape and is more at risk with his constant falls. 
 

If something really hit, this usually became knowingly enough quickly through messages in Telegram local chats. Not videos, just mentions about "boom in place X". The same for occupied Donbas teritories. Though, official Air Forces statistic usually says about total number of launched missiles/UAVs and number of intercepted. But their statistic doesn't include territories close to frontline and in some reason S-300/S-400 missiles. For example in Monday, when officially 10 Iskanders were launched on Kyiv, number of realy launched Iskanders were 11 - one hit in Kupiansk. Photos of building damage in Kupiansk were issued officially, but this Iskander wasn't "counted" in strike statistic.   

Low RCS return, make it harder to be detected by AEW like A-50.

It's funny because according to western media Putin has been dying since Feb 2022 but Biden looks in worse shape and is more at risk with his constant falls. 
 

I may be a cheap sentimentalist but my father wasnt and he hated nazis with a passion, having lived the occupation first hand, organized in youth resistance, hiding radios, sharing leaflets etc.... But still considered those allied bombings a sort of crime. That tells a lot to me.    

Here one could object maybe. For instance in Dresden it was known that civilians fleeing the red army from the East had found shelter in the city significantly increasing population density. Incediary bombs were used, there were reports mustangs were strafing refugees columns the next morning. It was a blood for blood collective punishment, as they knew war was soon going to be over, and such chances for a carnivorous ritual , would be zero. 
And it's wasn't only guilty German civilians that suffered from this type of blind bombings. My father experienced the bombing of Piraeus that had many casualties among the local Greek population for little military value. https://www.newgreektv.com/news-in-english-for-greeks/greece/item/31481-history-the-destruction-of-piraeus-by-allied-bombers-11-jan-1944
If we fail to grasp our side is also capable for producing wrong and evil, we will never be able to have an objective view even on contemporary events. 

I may be a cheap sentimentalist but my father wasnt and he hated nazis with a passion, having lived the occupation first hand, organized in youth resistance, hiding radios, sharing leaflets etc.... But still considered those allied bombings a sort of crime. That tells a lot to me.    

Here one could object maybe. For instance in Dresden it was known that civilians fleeing the red army from the East had found shelter in the city significantly increasing population density. Incediary bombs were used, there were reports mustangs were strafing refugees columns the next morning. It was a blood for blood collective punishment, as they knew war was soon going to be over, and such chances for a carnivorous ritual , would be zero. 
And it's wasn't only guilty German civilians that suffered from this type of blind bombings. My father experienced the bombing of Piraeus that had many casualties among the local Greek population for little military value. https://www.newgreektv.com/news-in-english-for-greeks/greece/item/31481-history-the-destruction-of-piraeus-by-allied-bombers-11-jan-1944
If we fail to grasp our side is also capable for producing wrong and evil, we will never be able to have an objective view even on contemporary events. 

Here one could object maybe. For instance in Dresden it was known that civilians fleeing the red army from the East had found shelter in the city significantly increasing population density. Incediary bombs were used, there were reports mustangs were strafing refugees columns the next morning. It was a blood for blood collective punishment, as they knew war was soon going to be over, and such chances for a carnivorous ritual , would be zero. 
And it's wasn't only guilty German civilians that suffered from this type of blind bombings. My father experienced the bombing of Piraeus that had many casualties among the local Greek population for little military value. https://www.newgreektv.com/news-in-english-for-greeks/greece/item/31481-history-the-destruction-of-piraeus-by-allied-bombers-11-jan-1944
If we fail to grasp our side is also capable for producing wrong and evil, we will never be able to have an objective view even on contemporary events. 

Here one could object maybe. For instance in Dresden it was known that civilians fleeing the red army from the East had found shelter in the city significantly increasing population density. Incediary bombs were used, there were reports mustangs were strafing refugees columns the next morning. It was a blood for blood collective punishment, as they knew war was soon going to be over, and such chances for a carnivorous ritual , would be zero. 
And it's wasn't only guilty German civilians that suffered from this type of blind bombings. My father experienced the bombing of Piraeus that had many casualties among the local Greek population for little military value. https://www.newgreektv.com/news-in-english-for-greeks/greece/item/31481-history-the-destruction-of-piraeus-by-allied-bombers-11-jan-1944
If we fail to grasp our side is also capable for producing wrong and evil, we will never be able to have an objective view even on contemporary events. 

A nail in the coffin in mid February 1945? Sir, Nazi Germany was dead and buried by then. 
Those bombings may have had a real effect on the war in 1942.. not 1945. They only denied the Soviets those factories, for the price of close to 35 000 women and children.

When in history did bombing major cities stop a war? Not counting in Hiroshima and Nagasaki because of the scale it had. 
Germany has suffered tremendously because of the bombing but despite all that it didn't surrender because of it. Nor were there any uprisings of the population against their government though probably more growing hate against the actual bombers. 
 
Was it right to bomb Germany? As a German myself I say no. Bombing on civilians in general is a war crime, regardless of who performs it. 
It might help the own military effort because it will hinder the economy (less (motivated) workers, damage to the infrastructure) and so hinder the military options for the "enemy". 
But it stays a war crime non the less. 
 
Assuming that the russian population have at least decent information on what's going on in the war they might also have the opinion that "their" war is a rightious one, due to propaganda and such. 
So I doubt that they would revolt internally  against the war if ukraine massively launches it's drones against Russians cities. The opposite could even be possible.
Standing together against the external threat and even rising the war effort. 
In Germany we call that "Burgfrieden" (peace in the castle). 

As I said above, when did that ever work? It all sounds so plausible on (electronic) paper but the effect could just as well be the opposite or none at all.
Isn't the story told in Russia that their brave sons, husbands and brothers are fighting a just war against Ukrainian Nazis and evil NATO who want to destroy Russia, the last home of faithful? And now Ukraine bombs innocent civilians, of course ordered to do so and supported by the USA, UK and Germany, who are known to bomb civilians in every of their wars? You don't have to be Göbbels to spin something convincing out of that.

I didn't follow this discussion, just stopping by to say: Come on, that is a bit cheap and you usually do much better than that. 😉 I think in this context by "winning the election" almost everyone meant "becoming president". Also, saying he did not win in the primary election is stretching the truth a bit. With 49.5% Erdogan had the most votes and almost managed to achieve an absolute majority. That is quite a feat if you compare it to, say, Macron, who got only 27.8% in the primary election in 2022. The primary election isn't meant to be won outright, that's what the runoff is there for, and it it doesn't make the winner any less democratically legitimized. True, 52% vs 48% isn't a large margin but if you go by popular vote, looking at the last two decades, almost all US presidents won by a similar or even smaller margin. Biden vs Trump was 51% vs 47%, Trump vs Clinton 47% vs 48% (!), Obama vs Romney 51% vs 48%, Obama vs McCain 53% vs 46%, Bush vs Kerry 51% vs 48%.
You are right about the tricks Erdogan pulled off, though I'm not too sure how much if a role they played. Germany has a large Turkish community and people here have free access to all sorts of information. They still voted 67% for Erdogan.

Also no smoke trail behind something, what hit helicopter, so this wasn't SA-missile.