panzermartin

The editor offers limitless creativity but there are some things that could be just a bit more flexible. Roads for example are way too time consuming. Trying to find the right piece every time you want to make a curve or intersection, almost seems like a puzzle game. There was once a nice map tool for CMx1 (mapping mission iirc) where you could just click and drag the desired path and your road network was ready in few clicks. Also, flavour objects..Chasing them all around the map to put them on the right spot is a bit annoying. Overall some more click and drag on the 3d preview map would be much helpful.

Just few months ago I finished my 1yr service in greek national guard at Kos island. Few kilometers from turkish coastline and few hundred meters from sandy beaches and north, central and eastern european beauties

At least for the next 6 months the game will be being patched heavily. I'm afraid we'll have to wait for the WW2 one to really see the new engine shine though.

Looks very promising and briefing is great. These are the kind of scenarios I expect to see from the community. Count me in pls mindmartin@gmail.com

Thank you for the reply, I was afraid that it was an engine limitation. Ok, I may be a bit over the top with the game stopper thing(edited) but there is definetely some conflict with the abstracted LOS and the "what you get is what you see" 1:1 infantry. Vehicles however dont seem to be affected that much since big rounds dont go through the terrain and walls.

Well after the success of the CMX1 titles I wouldnt blame BFC if it was socks that was selling under the label "combat mission".

Huntarr, I think you just helped to bury this thread as well as yours That one is about 8ft walls, not very alarming about the LOS/LOF problems encountered everywhere on the map.

The wonderful new finer terrain mesh is virtually useless in CMSF. Ditches and ground depressions that should provide cover and concealment to infantry are not taken into account. I had men crawling in a very deep ditch and yet they were spotted by infantry 100m away and got shot to pieces through solid ground. Sorry to repeat myself but I dont see many mentioning this and imo its far more annoying than pathfinding, which can be temporarily taken care with more babysitting. I know all the little and not so little bugs will be solved after a couple of patches but this seems as an engine problem. There can be no fun in infantry battles with 1:1 and these LOS/LOF abstractions. I try to play smaller scale battles tha fit better in the CMSF system only to find out that these are unplayable if a mountain or wall is eliminating your small force out of nowhere. Company of Heroes has the same problems with LOS/LOF but you never notice since it is a classic RTS. But CM? In CM all the game is build around who sees and fires first while micromanaging your pixel troops in accuracy of few centimeters. Also, many times Target tool reports no LOS on perfectly flat terrain smth like random invisible walls blocking the view. The core desing and philosophy of the game is excellent and definetely BFC are on the right track with CMSF, but you just cant ignore this problem, its fundamental and not a harmless engine abstraction. [ August 05, 2007, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: panzermartin ]

Well artillery UI is superb but not actually working for me. Most of the times it falls some hundred meters off target, all of the times if I play syrians. What's wrong with these guys? And adjust/cease fire dont seem to work either.

I have a hard time finding online opponents for a TCP match. Strikes me as a bit odd since CM is real time now and it is perfectly suited for a quick head to head skirmish. The chat in the proving grounds is deserted and even old timers dont pop up there anymore. PBEM seems to be still the most preffered way, even in this fast paced modern combat simulation. I wish there was a link to a MP lobby from inside the game for the newcomers that dont regulary visit these forums.

I think BFC team is on the right track. I see no bad development decisions here. (Well, except some UI problems-hotkeys for all main commands??-QBs and irrational auto purchasing perhaps). Modern setting, RT, 1:1. All of these are a step forward. Its the current state of the engine, LOS/LOF problems and the loose self preservation TacAI that holds the game back.

Well it says about "soldier firing through solid ground". This can include everything from seeing/firing through corners, walls and hills. They are aware of the problems and from what I get, there is no possible fix for that. I love the 1:1 but is damn hard to simulate, and if there is no possible way to be workable I would happily go back to 3 men per squad or at least a system that tells you where the main body and firepower of your squad is positioned(like a CMx1 colored main base ) with the 1:1 soldiers just for eye candy.

Actually there is official word on this. It is is in the manual: "...there are some fundamental abstractions necessary to make this whole thing work on your PC. The end result is that as you play CM sometimes you will see things that don’t look quite right. A soldier shooting through solid ground, perhaps, or a tree branch passing through a passing tank. In a perfect world we would have enough time and computing power to avoid these abstractions. Since we don’t, we can’t. What we can do is make sure these abstractions do not negatively impact the realism of the overall simulation. The “big picture” of your experience in CM is, after all, what is most important" So, the numerous LOS issues are necessary abstractions I suppose. I dont know, if cover, exposure, line of sight etc are so unpredictable and there are invisible holes everywhere, gameplay becomes a troop baby-sitting nightmare. These abstractions (?) do impact the realism of the simulation and the big picture of the game imo.

I just read the intro of the manual that refers to the weird LOS/LOF through terrain blaming it to the limitations of today's computers. Does this mean that we will never have decent line of sight and cover in the CMx2 engine? The more I play the more frustrating it gets. I played a flat map with a rather deep ditch as the only cover feature for the infantry and guess what..APCs had no problems to fire their guns through the ground and eliminate my men although there was no way that they could be seen hiding in a 3 meters deep ditch. I dont see any point in 1:1 presentaion with the current LOS I'm afraid. I have seen men firing through walls and los blocked in the middle of a perfectly flat street for no apparent reason. I would trade 1:1 presentation with the solid LOS system of CMx1 any day. Hope there is room for improvement here and it is not a weakness deep rooted in the game's enigne.

Lobbing rifle grenades to distances up to 300m accompanied by that "pop" sound. Pretty cool when you can land them on a building roof too.

Really? 3 floors arent enough to stop a 5.56 bullet? Who needs artillery then Thats another LOS/LOF bug

I have started to enjoy the game after my initial negative impression ,now slowly getting used to the tab command system (why not being able to asign hotkeys for all important commands?) There are many things to love in this game. Map editor, superb models and animation, excellent sounds, precise sense of scale and pacing of real time, artillery system, ricochets and countless little details, like those rifle grenades I saw my squad lobbing 200m away when I ordered them to area fire a target (love the popping sound btw). The game also must have the most realistic feeling explosions/dust clouds. Intense and Impressive without being hollywood style, well done. However, some problems are really killing it. I solved my poor performance by switching to 1 cpu affinity but still frame rates are erratic as long as there are many vehicles on screen. My main concern is the LOS/LOF through apparently solid terrain. Walls and hills seem to have invisible holes: 1:1 presentation and finer mess is just useless with this kind of LOS. Combine this with the absense of self preserving TacAI for the soldiers who dont really know how to position themselves behind cover and the problematic pathfinding and gameplay becomes chaotic. Also, in multiplayer there is an annoying passenger bug where your mounted inf stays behind hovering in mid air. There are many more little glitches here and there but it is understandable for a brand new engine. At least I hope there is something that can be done about the LOS/LOF problems above and its not a limitation of the new code.

Firing through terrain is a major bug much worse than pathfinding IMO. Using the good old CM tactic of sneaking up a hill will kill you instantly from a sabot going through 5 meters of solid rock. In genaral there seem to be holes in terrain features everywhere in walls, buildings, hills etc.

LOS/LOF through obstacles should be fixed. Walls seem to have some invisible holes.

I encountered this bug too.

Nice little fight! Anyone care to give it a try in TCP?

Not your fault, the auto purchase in QBs is to blame Dedicated 2player scenarios will be vastly better.

Funny how all your jeeps were massacred by a single inf squad popping up in your setup zone I think tiny games with 2-3 APCs and a few infantry will certainly be more playable. 12 strykers with accompanied inf seem to cause a lot of lag and jerkiness. Not easy to handle in RT either.

Great work Para! I dont really like the urban flat maps, I prefer these picturesqe hilly/village ones.

Yeah, we can make a ladder to compete for the best scenarios creations