Stormin Norman

I like it. It's really overwhelming, number of things going on (I'm use to 3 men abstracted squads, not 12 guys strung out all over the area). Don't see how anyone plays realtime. I'm glad for things like in the manual it says certain things are tracked but not displayed to reduce information overload. I couldn't find keys bindings to make bases glow or increase unit size. My only complaint is not being able to figure out where my guys are (in more detail than somewhere under their floaty icon).

I just pre-ordered, got download link in email, w00tloops! game got released as I was ordering! Rushed home from work, clickyed link only to be taunted with "you've tried to download pre-release blah blah" That is a really cruel setup right there!

Now you see why Germans developed and brought all those assualt guns to the party.

I had a Quad .50 kill a plane. Of course the plane(s) had already killed 10-12 tanks. The quad went on to murdelize a inf plt.

That is awsome.

I noticed (while trying to target a land unit) that the M17 had a very short range like 250m or less. Which I thought was odd. Might make them rather lousy AAA platforms or be inaccurate. Not enough of a grog to know. I also wonder if M17s must be unbuttoned in order to fire the AA mg's

read the tutorial pdf and try human wave for a different game and hopefully happier outcome.

It's only 17 days to release that is *no* time. disks have to be made boxed and shipped. They are working on the patch, if anything.

spoilers You need to get them closer, canister close. I basically won the scenario with my tanks, German surrendered/dead before my infantry had gotten 1/2 across map. I never moved my mg/motars which massivly surpressed any German ATG/team/squad/foxhole that got ID'd then a tank or 2 hunted to within about 30-40m 1 cansiter round fired, rinse and repeat. lost one tank

Try that tactic with companies/plts 2 plts fire while 1-2 move. Getting them to shoot Try using CA, although I think the conscript Soviets are too ill-trained. Worked well for the Germans I also find my self using N(next target) more than I have had before

In case you didn't know you can dbl click on a HQ inf or vehic to select all the units 'attached' to it. Then you can click to make them move as a group. only one waypoint, but you can move them add to them. Good to get your guys moving in right direction. With CM:BB penalty for more waypoints there is an incentive not to micromanage so much and with nifty new movement commands CA, adavce, contact there is less need. I'm very gratefull.

EFOW is awsome. But, being evil nasty gameplayer I am never satisfied. My issues in order of importance 1. Experience lvl of troops/vehcles etc. 2. "Woo hoo! Over here, yes I'm the armor plt ldr. 32. Detailed armor hits 99. number of casualties Those are annoyances rather than game stopping errors. They do stand out massivly since the rest of EFOW is handled with great detail and accuracy. I won't get mad until the 3rd game in which an ATG which I still havn't spotted has picked off all my plt ldrs btw EFOW seemed to make it harder to differentiate between squads/HQs, props for that.

In the CM:BB demo - Many things I love, some things I like, some things I don't like one bit(mouse camera action) But, I think my sentiments are best expressed by ... When can I freakin pre-order?

lots of pics in this thread http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47814 some Italian ones too, tiny tankettes and what not

I too lust after some good factory romps. I'm a little disapointed in what I've heard about factories so far. no vehicles inside, not as 'flash' graphically as I had hoped. But, hey you can't expect everything and CM:BB allready delivers so much. I hope you can place guns/mines inside bldgs. I don't think you can 'extra fortify' a bldg -sewer movement is in -havn't heard nuttin about cellers so, I think there are none. -I think keyholing is out (holes in walls) last I heard it is an engine limitation. -grenades, molotov's are upto scenario designer. -hand 2 hand fighting (blades) was in CM:BO -squad lvl smoke is out AFAIK as most people think it was not used much/was ineffectual when used there are trenches

Hey, Do I get a extra special prize for getting into round2 with the lowest score and almost the lowest score possible, 102 pts?

Hey, woofers congrats on getting in 2nd round you deserve it. Out of the few human games I played before this battle and the many afterwords this was my the most total and humiliating defeat. (I still get beat lots just not so well) I'm trying to forget this battle. So, I'm mostly commenting on what Woofers posted. I'll use left/right from Woofers point of view just to make it easy. Setup: Idea was to advance infantry, covered by MG's. Only bring up my tanks once enemy armor/atgs/PIATs revealed. 2 plts center woods 1 on in left woods. Motars +ldr in left woods behind grain. other support weapons spread around. 2 tanks behind bend in sunken road Tiger way out of sight on right Rest of tanks on right behind ridge, out of sight. Couple flamers in HT ready to go whereever some fire and HMGs were needed. > Most importantly, half a rifle squad ... This team stayed hidden through the entire battle, but paid for itself many times over by keeping me posted on what Germans were moving around there. You bastard, now I know why I felt so totally out manuveoured. great move. Turns 1-10: Just probing with infan, vehicles stay back. I drop some arty on obvious ATG locations nothing happens so I call it off. Bad for me cause there was a gun almost dead center under that barrage. Canadians are cool customers. >drop 4.2” & 2” mortar fire in the woods for a turn or two. I ran like hell and stopped follow on troops, not too much damage IIRC. >I leave it alone, rather than expose the AT guns yet Very prudent, that made me think it was safe. Actually, I started to convince myself that this was an "unbalanced" scenario or that I had to get early gains in order to withstand your later game reinf. So, I eventally scrapped the slow scouting (my troops were just dieing anyway) and moved fwd more agressivly, which just got my tanks to die along with more infantry. Turns 11-20: >I’ve started dropping arty on his troops with my reinforcement 4.2” spotter (the old spotter still has about 60 rounds left) as they move through the wheat field. They don’t seem to like it much. I was surprised at how much arty you had, it hurt a lot. Not as much as you might think in casualites but it slowed me down enough for your reinf to come and finish the job. > The rest of my tanks pop out of cover all at the same time on the next turn, A few turns before this I decided it was safe and ran all my armor way out into the open in a vain attempt to turn the tide in the infantry battle which I was loosing badly. They all died. >almost as many dead Canadians Wow, I thought it was 3-1 dead germans to dead Canadians, I thought I was fighting british btw. Maybe i would do better if I had paid more attention. >local numerical superiority I would say this was the SOP for Woofers. I seemed to have the wrong thing (infan, armor) in the wrong place (in woods, out in the open) at the wrong time (as arty lands, as enemy armor crests ridge) over and over in this battle. This is a lesson I have taken to heart. Turns 21-30: >Of course, this is just what Norman wants. Too wise, are you. I find it so hard (and also so fun) to face differnt play styles. Recent other people I played weren't as crafty as you. And, no offence, but IMHO the other game we played you were not nearly as crafty. That was actually a big factor in me "underating" you and taking risks/assuming things I shouldn't have. >get a flank shot at the Tiger. I don't think that tiger ever shot a single round in anger. Not vs a tank in anycase, so sad. I found the bocage hell, cause the enemy could move back and forth behind it out of LOS and at any point poke his nose through and get a flank/rear shot. (I don't like whoever designed this map, that's a round-a-bout compliment) Woof had way more tanks and possibly infan AT, ATG's so I had to be extra carefull. I couldn't scout with my infantry as his MG/carriers/tanks would (and did) kill it and I couldn't retailate with my armor cause then it would (and did) get flanked and raped. Towards the sad end I was racing my dwindling panzers back and forth desperately trying to flee his flanking armor. Woofers seemed to know how to counter every move I made. In retrospect the left side of the map was not a place to take tanks. >while the hiding platoon in the tree line sprung an ambush on the infantry about 40m from the trees out in the open, taking the steam out of the attack. I was stunned that you had infantry there. Geez, I can't believe you kept them not firing for so long. You are so patient and cool 'under fire'. >In summary, a large dose of luck and some local concentration of force saved the day. (the luck was to me in the other scenario, you earned this one) In hindsight, I made the very worse decisions in this scenario. I started cautious when I proly should have been agressive. I should have led with the hvy tanks. I expected tanks and hvy ATGs I was totally stunned by the reinf (had no plans for them and did not want them esp did not want enemy to have them, was something in the brief about this?) I divided into 2 thrusts, I should have picked one side and put every thing there and then sweeped. (would still have been bad when the reinf came but not as bad, maybe) To whoever is playing Woofers in the second round, please beat him so there is no chance I will have to face him again norm

hmmm SPOILER I just finished that scenario as the Soviets and was getting nowhere fast with my infan, human wave or not. Until, I moved my tanks fwd. The ATG's were quicky suppressed and destroyed by the mass of MG Motar and tank fire, lost one tank. Stupid AI needs to learn to use Covered Arcs and wait for flank shots. For the next 10 turns tanks hunted around in tight groups supported by MGs and motars and anhilated most the defending troops at close range, canister is great. Did not loose a single tank to Infan, only one molotov was thrown. around turn 19 I started my human wave again, worked great now there weren't any germans firing at them. Germans gave up next turn. Would'nt work well against competent human though. But vs the AI I don't think you need the infantry to win.

sounds like your using the FF and Rev buttons hit "Play" my good man.

"Has anyone else noticed how much this scenario favors the germans?" I think the default Soviet setup is bad. You should be trying for flank shots at close range from 2 or more directions *and* using covered arcs to make it happen. [that is the key, IMHO, of this scenario] use EFOW This scenario wouldn't ever work with CMBO Still it is very difficult I had 1 gun and 2 shocked tanks left when the last panzer bailed. Against a human I would have been very much worse. But knowing how some of the new mechanics work now I think I could do a bit better.

In case anyone is taking a vote or whatever. The knowing of experience was something that bugged me from CM:BO. IMHO it should definately not be in EFOW (unless its prone to error like tank mis-identification) Not sure what it means but I noticed that different enemy armor TC portraits had different uniform/insignia. I'm guessing its rank, and that it signifies who the plt cmdr is. I wonder how obvious who the plt cmdr was to a couple guys in a hole trying to light their molotov? Still, best tactical game around by a huge lead. Thanks for the demo.

Canister is great but very narrow purpose. As good as it is vs Infantry it sucks vs everything else. If you were a TC would you rather have canister that has a fairly short range or less effective vs Inf HE which can also blow up bldgs, ATGs, soft vehicles, etc. all at range? Not that I know anything, just know what ammo I would want.

Some interesting WWII pics I've not seen before on this thread. http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47814

you gotta remember 1 man left doesn't mean 1 man left alive, most his other squadies are wounded or just incapacitated from ******* their pants. They'll all want a ride back to the rear.

thanks for the link, voted for HOI. Gonna buy both HOI and CM:BB ASAP but HOI got my vote as there is already one good game at the scale of CM:BB, namely CM:BO. But, I havn't found a grand strategy WWII game that isn't the same old boring papergame copy. HOI seems to innovative in that regard.