Gyrene

Feh, if the Maus is put in the game then BTS better make it realistic i.e.: Drive 100 yards at 5 mph, destroy its engines and transmission and slowly sink into the ground, hopelessly immobilized. Gyrene

Detroit, you have to keep in mind that BTS originally made the game for wargamers (As opposed to computer gamers in general) and never felt that there would be a need to limit purchases that would be ahistorical (i.e. 20 40mm AA guns a 1 14" spotter as a team...) as real wargamers would never make set ups like that, and they never even thought the game would be as popular with non wargamers as it is. There are many who "play what you brung", but there are also many who don't like the notion of such "gamey" set ups. I'd imagine most CM players fall somewhere in the middle. The limitations on the set ups should at the very least be agreed on before hand. Then everybody is happy. Gyrene

Modern Snipers do not engage targets beyond 1000 meters with rifles. Correct. US Snipers claim not to use the Barret's .50 against human targets, but they do engage hard targets at 1500m + regularly. There are no modern Snipers in CM. There should not be, my initial suggestion should be re-read as "Should the Soviets get cheaper Sharpshooters" to simulate their larger number of available sharpshooters. I agree with all comments that an Elite sharpshooter will do the job. Me asking for longer engagement ranges for Sov shooters is unhistorical, from the little more that I've been able to gather, their engagement ranges were no longer than anyone else's. BTW, let it be known that I never asked sharpshooters to be able to hit anything at 2500 yards. Gyrene

Me and Boy Recon are not getting done on time. We did most of it TCP/IP this weekend, but he had to stop due to Real Life, so we're stuck at turn 16, and I haven't heard from him in since the last turn yesterday. We're doomed! <snif> Gyrene

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Someone may get a fluke hit at 2500 meters, but engagement is much lower. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Why does the statement that Hathcock hit a VC at 2500 yards with a scope mounted M2 cause so much consternation? I'll attempt to add some more info to clarify this matter: About the shooter: -Carlos Hathcock was a Wimbledon Cup winner, the premiere 1000 yard match, he was a comptetition shooter for at least 10 years before he even got his first kill (400 yards with an M14) in Vietnam -He had 93 confirmed and 300 unconfirmed kills, most beyond 700 yards. About the shot: -He had devised a scope mount for his Unertl 10x scope to fit on a M2HB (Which has long been used for single shots, it even has a single shot mode), and he had sighted the gun in a spot very close to where the VC showed up. -He took the shot, he hit. Witnessed by the officers and men of an entire firebase. The guy ate and drank long range shooting, that shot was not a fluke had he had the need to do it again he could. He gained (unwanted) fame during the late 70's where being a military hero in the US was more difficult than being a sports hero, most of the media was against anything military and ready to expose frauds and debunk heroes. His story has stood the test of time and probably the most intense scrutiny of any sniper in the 20th Century. He was not a product of a propaganda machine, there were no heralded snipers in Vietnam like Vasili Zaitsev or Simo Häyhä, if anything these guys were kept unknown on purpose: Chuck Mahinney, the leading USMC Sniper of the Vietnam War (103 kills) was virtually unknown until a couple of years ago. If a German, Russian or Finnish Sniper had made that shot it would be the talk of the town and not the object of so much doubt. Gyrene

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I slouch, chew gum, put my hands in my pockets, and overpay myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Don't forget "I take credit for everything" Gyrene

I've played the American side quite a bit and I guess I just got used to their quirks... Vanilla Shermans work best if you know the location of enemy armor and try to work the flanks in teams, Stuarts are great a shoting on the move and harrasing enemy vehicles (Do not try to go toe to toe with any German tank in a Stuart...), the M8 HMC is a great and underappreciated little vehicle that will dominate any German armor or vehicle in its price range. Keep your bazooka team away from your troops. No more burned britches The US 12 man squad have more punch than the Brit or Canadian squads and are more than a match for any German squad at anything but grenade range. US Airborne squads can hold their own against VG SMG Squads. Both have decent AT capabilities with their rifle grenades, which are much better than nothing, esp. when compared to Canadian/French squads. The US also gets .50 cal MG teams who have no direct equals in other forces (Barring the French) and the 60mm mortar beats the 2 inch mortar any day of the week. The medium MG's of both UK & US play almost the same. I play all UK & US sides almost the same way, except that I take a few more risks with PIAT teams, due to their stealthier nature they teand to get many more second & third shots than baz teams who have the life span of an Allied Flame Thrower team in a VG convention after their first shot. If you can play Cromwells successfully, there's no reason you can't drive US Sherms around just as well. Gyrene

Da Russians should gets them pantserfausts, so's they can club Hitler Youfs wif. Ji-reen

ICM, USMC Snipers in Vietnam zeroed their rifles to 700 yards and had the ballistics tables for their rounds memorized for anything beyond that. Even today USMC M16's are zeroed to 300 yards, which is about the useful range of the thing in a real world setting. Gyrene

A hilarious (In a sick and twisted way...) set up is to make a scenario with just an Allied spotter and a Axis spotter and place them next to each other. The Gung-Ho little fools will call arty on top of themselves. OSGF, where your troops low ammo? Gyrene

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If he did make a 2500 yard kill, it was a once in a lifetime shot, I doubt he shot regularly over 1000 meters unless he was in Vietnam with the Marines, who did have a long range sniping program. Even then, like I said, ranged topped out at 1400 meters for M2HB machineguns with scopes, and often needed several shots even with that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, like PW42 said, Gunny Hathcock was one of the top Snipers in the USMC in Vietnam and the originator of scope mounted M2's Ask your friend if he ever heard of Carlos Hathcock Gyrene

IIRC there a was story in the Guiness Book of Records about a guy in the Spanish Civil War that was shot 3 times in the head and still hobbled back to his lines quite a few miles away. Simo Häyhä's kill count is impressive, but I wouldn't go as far as touting him as the greatest sniper ever, as most of his kills were made well under 400 yards in terrain he was intimately familiar with, and his word was good enough as confirmation, this is not to say that he could be lying about his kills, but US snipers in Vietnam did not get credit for a kill unless an Officer witnessed the kill or the body was confirmed by a recon party. That explains the relative "low" kill numbers in Vietnam many other hits would be too dangerous to confirm, not only that they were hunting a much more elusive prey in terrain they were foreign to at much longer ranges. Could you imagine what Carlos Hathcock's kill numbers would be if the war was in his native Arkansas? Gyrene

Yes, before this thing does go down the drain, my intention was to reflect the Soviet's greater availability of formally trained snipers compared to the other combatants of WWII. To deny the abilities of any other sharpshooters (Even uber-duper-super finns) was not my intention. If the Russians did not have more trained snipers than the Germans as I have been led to believe, then leave the system as is. Gyrene

Mr. J, at the moment I can only offer you anecdotal evidence, mainly gleaned from numerous History Channel programs who regular make claims similar to my initial thread. Other than that I'd have to dig to find data on the numbers of sharpshooters deployed and the differences in their training (Usually more than "give the best shot the rifle with the scope" as it was done by the other Allies). Gyrene

Heh, maybe not better stealth. Gyrene

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>3.5 inch bazookas (aka schrecks) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Schrecks were German copies of American bazookas captured in Africa, and the 3.5 was a "schreckfied" version of the the old original bazooka. Full circle. Gyrene

The Soviets had the most developed and widely employed sniper program of WWII, and most of the sniper caused casualties in the war were inflicted by Soviet snipers so... Should the Russians have a better, more expensive form of sharpshooter available in CMBB? Something with a rarity factor, of course, but a shooter that could exceed the 600m limit and have higher stealth numbers and accuracy? Gyrene

Future LOS is a very unrealistic feature to have in the game, there is no way you could know what you'd be able to see from a future position, and the uncertainty of the terrain ahead is one of the heaviest tactical burdens in real life. Gyrene

We're reckless! We're daring! We have not yet begun to fight! But I'd rather be Chesty Puller or Holland Smith Those who don't know what I'm talking about see here Gyrene

Sounds like a good idea, especially nice for scenario designers. Gyrene

Wow, lots of replies! I'm glad to see the Poles are not as under appreciated as I thought. I think I'll pick them for my next PBEM for variety's sake. Gyrene

99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer... Gyrene

I've played the Polish side of a CM game exactly once (A scenario, lots of tanks, the name escapes me) and I wonder if there are any CMers out there that actually play them regularly, as I think they're probably even less used than the French in CM. I think it's the language confusion that turns me off from playing them, at least I can catch when a German soldier says "panzer!" and I can scratch enough French to know what is going on when I play them, it's amazing how much I depend on sound in CM. Are there even any differences between playing the Poles and the Brits? Gyrene

CMBB will have 22% less Dragon's Teeth than CMBO, While CMBO will have 22% more Dragon's Teeth than CMBB. It's a pity that there is absolutely nothing else at all on the map editor that can be used to substitute for dragon's teefs, because it would be nice to deny tanks access to certain areas of the map, but as it is, their cursed caterpillar tracks allow them to move about with great impunity and a swagger to their step, rolling over every terrain tile available to the map maker, including but not limited to the rough, marsh & water tiles. Curse their caterpillar tracks! Is Mr. Cash here yet? Gyrene

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>WHO WANTS HELP? Speak for yourself. I don' need no stinkin' help. I play CM all the time. No problem. What was the question? Where am I? Is this the up elevator? Thanks for sharing...My name is Gunnergoz and I'm a CM addict... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not an addict. I can quit the game and this forum whenever I want. ... OK I LIE!!!! Gyrene