Lordfluffers

Well play as the Germans then. A discussion about 'allies vs. allies' is about as sensical and relevent IMO as asking for hpothetical situations involving the Swiss attacking Germany, or the Irish invading Britain. Its absolutely absurd.

SS_Panzerleader I have a suggestion. I had a USB modem and could'nt play IP CM because very similar things happened when I tried. Even loading up the game caused my modem to **** up. It was lit up as still connected but wouldn't respond until I reset the system. The answer is that if your modem is attached to an extension cable which your PC is also running on, the power surge caused by loading CMBO caused my modem to stop responding. I put the modem on another plug socket. Hope that helps!!

How about Queen's 'Who wants to live forever?'

How about Combat Mission 2: Like Combat Mission 1 - but different. or... Combat Mission 2: Vacation in Russia ??? I think 'CM2:Beyond Barbarossa' is a fine name. Keeping the Beyond bit adds to the suggestion it will be backwards compatible.

The onlg game to ever come close was the original Civilisation. For the record, my hat off to BTS, Battlefront and everyone who helped bring CMBO about. It is truly appreciated. Although I ofthe make suggestions (all helpful I hope!) my admiration for Charles, Steve, Madmatt et al. remains unswerving. Whats more is the respect the CMBO community recieves. Thank you BTS

The BMP no's for the Pershings are: 3580-3589. That infomation was found at Combatmissions.co.uk Hope it helps

Holding a zook is not a very sublte affair. I am presuming that most tankers could recognise the outline of a rifle. Similarly I'm sure they would have realised that the big pipe looking things wwere not good for their health nor their vehicles. Just my pondering on the subject.

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting!! I realise that the vast majority or surrenders were organised (Singapore 1941,IIRC 250 000 British and Commonwealth troops surrendered to Japanese). Im sure such odds as the following existed, soldiers be tempted to surrender: becoming cut off, ammo runs dry, surrounded and/or out-numbered by superior forces, terrible casualties in the unit etc., or in the case that grieves me most, an enemy tank drives up to within 10 meters if your unit (in this case a vehicle crew)and mercilessly mows them down. The immediate logic would be to stick the hands in the air and pray. If there was a possibility of returning to friendly lines, I'm sure most soldiers would, its just the extreme cases where escaping is impossible I would like to surrender those troops. BTW Engy, I've never heard of that occuring before. I often flank enemy positions and batter them from all sides and the only captives I ever get are immobile mg teams. Maybe I've just been unlucky. CM is pretty non-linear so I could have just been unfortunate. Maybe BTS could put in another word?? Agreed Mike, it has been an interesting conversation.

I will happily put troops in heavy buildings, not so keen on light buildings, particularly if the building controls an avenue of approach, covers a clearing etc. Im also happy to stick my men in prominent buildings at the start of my defence. I simply hide them or ambush them and wait for the enemy to step up in front of them. If the building starts getting shelled then I'll crawl the unit out the back. However woods is almost always the best cover. It is dense providing good concealment, but it is also much healthier to be in under shell fire.

Whats a SOP???

Interesting points Mike, Im afraid I have't got any figures about POWs or anything but Im sure their proportion of captured to killed or injured was quite high esp. for Germany and USSR. The German's began surrendering in droves to the US Brits etc,especially after the breakout from Normandy and push into Germany. The war was lost and most did not see the point of wasting their lives needlessly. Troops also knew generally the enemy would give them clemency, particularly on the Wesetern Front. Western Allied troops surrendered relatively little after DDay because they were generally not the ones being attack, overrun etc. Most prisoners are usually captured whilst defending. Troops that are attacking can usually just slip back to friendly lines. BTW Im not asking for a surrender option solely from a point of command much like a commander wouldn't neccessarily know what his units could tarket. It is an abstraction. I think to code in realistic AI for realistic surrender would be extremely difficult. When would the AI it know when a situation is hopeless, or whether breaking and running back behind lines has the best chance of staying alive. The average soldier (ignoring those gone berserk or mad etc) at all times is most concerned about surviving, they don't want to die. I just feel sorry for those poor CM soldiers that don't have the initiative to work out they're are going to certain death if they don't give up now. I want to help them live. P.S. thanks for keeping this an interesting debate, and not becoming confrontational etc.

Appreciated, especially me on my old 56k

Thanks for posting back Mike! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I've had infantry squads surrender when they are reduced suffieciently, as well as platoon command groups <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK how often do your inf squads surrender in relation to the frequency they get mown down trying to break or rout? Is it a plausible ratio? Im just asking questions so you see where Im coming from. I could be very wrong maybe front line troops didn't surrender very regularly. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Not if you were fighting the SS in Normandy you wouldn't. Or after Malmedy in the Bulge? There are plenty of other instances of No Quarter. We can look back 60 years later and pretend that the troops really weren't scared or fighting for their lives - hindsight is great and games like this tend to gloss over the true human emotions of the time - but those guys only had one life to live and they had no idea if their surrender would be accepted or not <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly! they only have one life, Im sure I would take the chance of surrendering rather than getting blown away by that mg or tank or whatever. In many cases the best chance of saying alive is surrendering. Look at the figures for POW's in WW2 and the Germans captured literally millions of Russians despite the abysmal way they were treated. British and US troops were generally treated superbly as far as POW treatment goes. Things like Malmedy were rare, that's why that event is infamous. The SS took British and US soldiers prisoner for the vast majority. A lot of SS doctrine said that the Brits were essentially misguided brothers anyway and blamed Churchill. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> There are few instances where a commander has "permitted" his troops to surrender, except in mass surrenders that are out of the scope of CM. This serves no discernible purpose - surrenders are already built into the game and I repeat that it is not something a commander had any control over. Even if an isolated MG position could radio his commander and ask permission to surrender, it is doubtful that such permission would ever be granted.

Oops [This message has been edited by Lordfluffers (edited 01-23-2001).]

BTS I hear you, but with the proposed ignore order you click on a unit much like the way you target a unit and the unit you're commanding unit does not fire at that unit unless otherwise instructed to do afterwards. I can't see how that could be too flawed. Secondly, troops surrounded, this is in reference to Mike's comment, would surrender. For example, a platoon is cut off, Instead of sitting their, until sometimes clears the area with grenades or charging out the building right past enemy tanks, troops, mg's etc. I'm sure they would think, '**** the game's up, We surrender'. CM models the surrender of immobile MGers well but currently other than this the only time soldiers surrender generally is when all the troops surrender and the game ends. I've had plenty examples of when mg posts have been overrun, AT teams have run out of ammo and are defenceless to enemy units, teams have got stuck behind enemy lines or a tank has driven right up three metres in front of my troops and they've squirmed on the floor dieing one by one or tried to run off and got mown down. In such horrible odds I know I would raise my hands and hope my captor was in a good mood. Mike I was in the Royal Marine Cadets until I was 18 so I have a little experience of military exercises. But you can try crawling away while you're pinned and risk an enemy squad running up behind you and unloading a clip into your back or surrendering and taking the chance you might spend the rest of the war surrounded by high wire. If troops are surrounded, the chances of them surrendering should be much higher. I personally would like a surrender command so that the MG post that held the hoardes at bay doesnt have to die horribly after being surrounded or bypassed or overrun. After such a heroic performance they deserve to be able to surrender. I never thought I'd say this but CMBO doesn't take enough prisoners. P.S. BTS a captured crew is just as good as a dead one and a whole lot easier on the conscience!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus: What are you doing playing the British in the Whittman scenario, soldier???? That scenario was meant to be played as the Germans! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was playing the scenario where Whitmann gets killed... Spoiler - (don't look down this post if you don't want to know whic scenario) [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ [ August Bank Holiday.. [This message has been edited by Lordfluffers (edited 01-23-2001).] [This message has been edited by Lordfluffers (edited 01-23-2001).]

As we all know CM is fabulous and beautiful and sexy and... Anyway this is a request rather than a criticism or demand so here goes... Please please give us an ignore target order so my tanks dont always have to swivel backwards to kill some measly crew when the tank commander caught a glimpse of a enemy TD a few seconds earlier. It really is irritating, I read earlier how someone rained down arty on his troops for less!! The other thing is... Please can we have a surrender order. I feel so guilty when isolated units are cut off and mercilessly mown down or vehicle crews obliterated from a distance of 2 meters by a tank's hull mg. I don't know if that's very realistic but if I'm in those positions I'd just stick my hands up and shut my eyes. I would like my little virtual soldiers to surrender when they haven't got a chance of getting out of there alive otherwise. P.S. Something made me laugh earlier. I drove up to Michael Wittmans crew (I blew his Tiger up, poor guy) and mercilessly gunned them down. I did feel quite cold blooded and murderous but then he didn't surrender so what could I do? The best thing is I dismembered his crew with an MMG carrier, oh how the mighty fall. P.S. This topic may have been breached before but my little 56k can't handle sifting thru 100's and 1000's of posts. Sorry if I'm being repetitive. [This message has been edited by Lordfluffers (edited 01-22-2001).]

BTW, I do think we should have an ignore target order because it is irritating when that **** happens. One other order we need is the surrender order. I hate watching crews right next to enemy units getting needlessly and unrealistically mown down when in reality they would just stick their hands in the air.

LOL!! Ive run troops into the enemy guns because I've been arguing with my girlfriend. Ive also sent unfortunate jeeps and other recon units to places I really wish I hadn't like into to a hive of tanks. The guilt I feel when those virtual crews get cruelly mown down.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav: Also, the German vehicles armed with 20mm guns will shoot at planes. I'm not sure if this is intentional or a bug, though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey!! Thats the point of 20mm's on vehicles! They're there to shoot at enemy aircraft.

lol

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: I don't know why people are picking on Slapdragon. He is being serious. This is not the frist time a position like his has been presented. The "Fantasy Football" type environment is as legit as the one Robert is asking for, so why pick on him for it? Robert wants the line drawn in one place, Slapdragon in another. I have no problem with either request, nor should anybody else. CM2 will almost certainly have a no force pool point restriction option. The rest of the suggestions, which remove even more restrictions, are probably not going to happen simply because we don't want to spend our time on them at the expense of other features. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Fair enough BTS... Cant wait :smile:

Even if counter artillery was available in CM, you never see enemy or friendly artillery. Unless the counter battery was directly behind you, you would probably not even hear the shells going over anyway and since CM models distant artillery (you can hear if you turn ambient sounds on) you may presume this also includes batteries firing at each other too. [This message has been edited by Lordfluffers (edited 01-22-2001).]

Far as I knew they were just regulars.

Agreed, I'd dont need to have M1 Abrams in 1944 but I would like to expreiment with what might happen should I decide to play a QB with loads of mines, barbed wire, etc and a handful of men instead of haveing to manually create my own scenarios. It would also be cool to create imbalanced forces and see what happens. whatever I would enjoy the flexibility, not when playing other people but so I can experiment with the computer. Comments by Slapdragon and CavScout in particular are banal and pedantic. If you dont agree,say so and say why. There is no need for your exagerrations nor for twist things out of context. What is being asked for is an option with which you can spend your force points entirely how you wish. No-one is asking for the ability to assign each unit its ammo loadout etc. nor does anyone want to start having fantasy settings of having Pershings in June 1944 etc. Look back at the post, see what is being asked for and make constructive criticism, if you have any. Otherwise shut up.