Splinty

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

Do Muhammed Ali proud. Roam with a Drone and strike like a Javelin.

Name me a war where that doesn't happen. A large number of super rich families got their money from World War 2. 
Sorry Steve. I won't derail the thread again 😇

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

The Russo-Ukraine War shows precisely why this point of view, while ostensibly based on deep,universal insights, springs from a very specific set of circumstances. Namely, one where one's country and nation is free of any actual danger.
Apologies for saying the obvious, but it seems necessary. A country is a territorial pollitical organisation within which lives a group of people, called a nation. If you do not care about your country, you do not care about whether that group of people - including you-  is self governed, or subjected to other country, therefore another nation. Alternatively, you do not care whether your nation gets to use a particular territory, or is deprived of it by another nation - thus impacting e.g. the natural resources, trade routes, etc. avaliable to the group, which includes you. 
Not caring for your country does not therefore make much rational sense, because things which affect your country affect you, your family, your descendants, etc. It seems to me, that in fact, people say "I couldn't care less about my country" because either they consider the risk of having to defend their country as practically non-existent and therefore they do not seriously think about it, or at the back of their minds there lies is an unspoken assumption, that it does not matter whether you are German, French, or Dutch. I am not sure, but I am not going to dispute that about those 3 countries. However, it is absolutely clear to me that it is crucially important whether you are Ukrainian or Russian, as this war abundantly proves.
And as regards the random lines on the map called Ukraine, they decide e.g. whether the nation called Ukrainians will have access to ports of the Azov sea and able to export their grain through them. Or whether the Crimean Penninsula will be within those random lines, or on the other side of random lines and therefore under the control of whoever at the time is the tyrant of Russia, threatening the nation of Ukrainians with naval invasion. By defending those lines on map they are defending their future well-being. The position "I support your right to decide for yourselves but Ido not support your fight for the borders" is self-contradictory and thus obviously wrong, because the right to decide for themselves obviously includes the right to decide how to develop Ukrainian land. 
 

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I didn't fight for the abstract concept of nationhood. But I DID choose to join the military (US Army) as a career. Because I love my friends and family, and being a soldier was my best way to serve THEM. When it actually came to war, I fought for the folks on my left and right. Nationhood sounds good as a thing to fight for, but there are very few people who actually do that.

I think, this opinion is self-deception. "Democracy, freedom, rights" is just abstract set of terms without their carriers and those, who maintains by the laws existing of this values. This thing is a country, a nation as commonwealth of people, united by some values and culture and a state, as a rule representative of this commonwealth. 
Yes, we fight for freedom and rights too, but in first order we fight for the same "lines on the map", which mark our land, our cultural and national space - all what compose a country, which during hundreds of years has been growing and maintains these freedom and rights. 
But now I understand better, why so many western politics and usual people say in surprise "why you fight for pieces of land (as variat "for your corrupted government") and dooming many of your people on death and injuries? Fight for the territories - fi, how this "imperialistic"! You should start negotiations and make concessions with Russia, yes, you will lose a land, but you can leave in piece, you can develop democracy and you can become a EU/NATO member (sometime later... maybe... when pigs fly).   
Fight for "democracy and rights" only away from fight for own country is a way of atomisation of society. Bright example is a PLC of 17th century, were nobility fought only for own "rights", but not for country and in result this finished with crash of the state. 

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason. 

I didn't do 2 tours in Iraq to make somebody rich. I went to fight terrorists. You will find the vast majority of my felllow military members went for the same reason.