Silencer

the gun that should fire ID in CM would be the german 75 infantery gun, it can lift it's barrelt up to 72° and has a special breach to load the rounds. Donno about the 150mm inf gun though. S.

just bumping this excellent tread up. S.

yes, Fionn, there 're right about the 20mm HT and 20mm AC. It will use it's 20mm gun against planes and when it's mg ammo is depleted, automaticly. But against HT and soft targets, it won't use the 20mm, even if it's recieving 50cal fire!!! It just sits and dies. S.

32pdr? What is that in mm? S.

Me too plz, thanx, S.

Vyper, at +2000m the panther's gun couln'd defeat the perchings front, not without tungsten. The perching 90mm could do this with tungsten. (and 90mm tungsten was more available then geman.) still, if you read the acounts on the russian front, kills were far better achieved with less rounds spend. Why is it that the tanks in CM have to fire a lot more to score a hit at +2000m? especially HV guns, like the nashorn, a very vulnerable tank, who had to go with a few shots, one kill tactic. oh, did anyone noticed this: the 128mm HE shell has a greater penetration capability then the 75mm L70 or the 88mm L56!!!

yes, the command "rotate to" is not visible anymore at least on the flak 88 and pak 88. I just played the op: A day in a cavalery, and I couldn't turn the barrel in the direction I wanted. The command isn't there anymore. (bummer) Solution: I targetted a unit out of LOS, in the same direction i wanted the gun facing to. And it worked, it turned to the unit out of LOS. But i really liked the 'rotate to/orient' command much more. Is this a change/bug since 1.03? I know it worked before. Silencer

thanx Charles for clearing this one up. the difference in mantle: I thought the germans increased it by 10mm on the late tiger version? Was there behind the mantle of the panther also no turret armour? Silencer

KiwiJoe: I dont think cm models mantles from what I can tell. Well, I'm thinking it too. Still, it's half the armour value, quite important I recon. For example the last defence battle, get your tiger in hull-down in about 600meters from where the helcats appear. the hellcats don't have any Tungsten with them, yet still they will achieve a turret front penetration! very strange, the 76mm shouldn't be able to penetrate the front turret at any range. (without tungsten of course) Silencer

KiwiJoe, when the tiger is hull-down, is has approx 200mm front armour!!! (IIRC) that's 100mm turret front and ~110mm mantle (and the mantle completely covers the entire front) quote: 1. Pz.Kpfw.VI Tiger I. Source: Jentz, Thomas L.: Germany’s Tiger Tanks. Tiger I & II: Combat Tactics and Spielberger, Walter J.: Panther & Its Variants. The mantle completely covers the turret face so some texts add the two thicknesses and cite the turret front as being 200mm thick. Jentz gives a turret mantle thickness of 120mm. (120mm is the mantle for the late tiger) Now, the '76 would have great difficulty to penetrate that. (I think only 17 pounder would be able to do that) I don't know how CM models this though?(Fionn?) Silencer

take a look at www.achtungpanzer.com, Thé german WW2 vehicles site. Schwere Panzerspähwagen (7.5cm PaK 40) Sd.Kfz.234/4 (8-Rad) Notice this vehicle only had about 12 rounds? I find it a bit few, but then again, it's a scout car and a hit-and-run car..... S. btw, it a 75mm PaK 40 L/46 cannon (not L/48)

One question. why is it that the 95mm of the cromwell has a better HE and Hollow rating then the 105mm stugIV?? holow charge is dependant on the diameter (radius), the greater diameter the better penetration. Confuzed S.

panther: "so the turret s_l_o_w_l_y traversed all the way back" What is noticed is that the turret of the panther is too slow. It's turrest traverse is dependant on it's engine RPM. If I recall correctly, there is panhter A in a Museum on the Meuse. they once tested the turret speed, (about 2800RPM) 360° traverse in 19s!!!! This is NOT a slow turret. just my 0.02$ S.

immobilization? Yesterday i was playing Wittman in Villers-B. I drove past 2 house, in between was a vickers I believe (I dont think the English had a 50cal there????). The AI turned it's VickersMG, fired a burst, and voila, Tiger immobilised. Does anyone know the mm of a Vickers MG'gun?

20mm has a LOT more punch then 50cal. 20 mm has also min2 types of rounds, Compare it like the 5.56mm versus the 50cal. (5.56 --> 12.7 and 50cal --> 20mm) the germans also had a 13mm MG gun and has the same stats as the 50cal. Although not much used und the ground, it was a weapons used in bombers as defence and in their fighters. S.

can 50cal hurt a tiger? yes. 1. It can Immobilise the tiger. 2. It can make the main gun damaged on the tiger. (lucky optics hit) S.

I used tanks with good HE to blow up bridges, works fine S.

88mm Raketenwerfer43 Puppchen Last week I saw one of these in the Citadel of Huy on the MEUSE. nasty bugger, but surprisingly VERY light. Could pick it up an swirl it around S.

Cardinal, yes, Fionn is a crack when explaining the details. I was looking for data, how all these things where calculated in CM. And the thing I really wanted to know is how the long range duals are modelled +1500m, where the optics DID play a role. They don't happen often, but they do. Another thing I noticed, it seems to be impossible to spot each other's tanks (unbuttoned) over 2000m, on a flat paved terrain (testbed). Strange... Just placed 2 tanks 2200m from each other and they will not spot the other. S. S.

LOL, hehe Fionn, drinking to much of that good old Irish beer, have ya?? S.

Ari, version 1.01. (1.02 is not for the full, waiting for the 1.03) no, optics are not fully in! Charles needs to clearify on this. if you doubt, run some tests, sherman'75 versus Nashorn, on a flat 1900m apart. Do it 30 times en count the results. No advantage at the german side, even at this extreme range. And Nashorns are known (especially at the east front), to use the longest range possible for their own survival. DanE, "Was the crew "Shocked"? If so, then there is a delay in any action performed by that tank." Nope, when the tank was hit (shell broke up or something none damaging) It just buttoned up and forgot the enemy tank, pure coz that buttoned tanks have less spotting abillity. Sure this would be the case when the other tank wasn't spotted before, but my tank had already fired 4 rounds!!! Happens a lot at greater ranges. (1800+) Cardinal Fang, yup, i know, i read those when they where posted, even on the old board. I've been a reader on this board for more then a year now. just to clearify, the thing about optics has never been truely explained yet, what the advantages are for what vehicle and why. I would like to see an table or something, I just like numbers (I know as for the tiger1, it had the most accurate gun af all German tanks (even better then tiger 2) S.

quote" When buttoned they couldn't engage the previous engaged enemy anymore from around 1800 m on." yup, had this too serveral times. When hit by an allied or german tank, and the crew buttons up, they won't fire anymore against the oher tank, who is still firing away. those crews must have a very short term memory this is probably a bug, or at least needs some fixing. S.

quote: It is known that the german optics were superior to the allied ones, and that an experienced crew needed 3 shots in average for tanks 1000 to 2000 m away standing still, at under 400 m the cannon could be fired right away, since trajectory was so flat then that a hit was almost sure. I have played Panzer Elite extensively, And I can only adress the lack of the optics in CM. I played both sides, on max diff, and it was HARD!! But the germans defenitly gave an edge on +800 duals due to zooming and range finding. on to the optics: When you have an crack or elite crew, the 4'the shot on a static tank at 1500m is 99% sure to be a hit (from what i've read, the 3e shot is already +95%). I tested some sef made senarios, where i put a jumbo against tiger on a disance of approx 1800m. The hit percentage of each tanks where appox. the same, and more strange, it took an avarage of 5 to 6 shots to achieve a first hit. that's way to much on a static non moving tank, especially for a german tank another strange thing, when hit, normally you would assume the next round would hit again, as the gun is now 'locked on'. but no, anoter rounds fall short or long before hit again. And that the engagements in CM are often less then 1km is no reason to not include it. yesterday, I had a Dual of a panzer IV and a firefly at a range of 2000m (none of them hull down) guess who won? another battle was an archer versus a crack jagdpanzer, range 1500. the archer was on open ground, not hull down. the Archer had already fired 2 shots before the JP IV( was unbuttoned and in overwatch mode in some scattered trees,he wasn't firing at anything and was facing the right direction.)noticed him. Strange?? Could it be possible the AI cheats? the turret armour for the tiger: as seen on photos, the 120mm mantlet of the late tiger I covered almost the whole front of the 100mm turret. Still , when a 76mm gun AP shell fires from approx 500m and hit's the turret, always a penetration!!! has someone an explananation for this? I don't know the penetration capability of a 76mm, but it's never more than 140mm at 500m. Is the mantle really calculated? Shouldn't there be more non-penetrating hits then?? S. ps; For the rest, still an excellent game!!!!

also for longer ranges, The tank will use its main gun HE against Infantery, MG isn't so effective at longer ranges. Did anyone noticed that the jagdtiger HE shell has more armour piercing capability then the panther and the tigers AP shells!! S.

von Lucke, so, you saw orange traces going from the tiger towards the plane and hear the MG? Could you post a screenshot of it. I ran another 2 tests, with only tanks, no luck. S.