K_Tiger

And if the Canadians or Americans can still send their recruits to 16 weeks of training vice 7 for the Germans, doesn't it still even out? [/QB]

And what I am saying is that little if anything is known about comparative "overall condition". If you have some hard data to amaze us with, by all means bring it forth. So far, all you've presented are unsubstantiated opinions, opinions that conflict with opinions expressed by writers with more impressive credentials than either you or I who have consistently maintained that Australians, Canadians, and Americans were by and large the hardiest soldiers in the war. [/QB]

I meant the overal kondition, i do not speak from single individuals. The USA are the leader in the most olympic disciplines, but should this tell me anything about the overall condition from the hole nation...i dont think so, who has the thickest people proportionally? This should be also the USA!

If you want to tell me something with it, feel free. Btw. was Mr. Owens on the frontline? So.. i found something about the Hitleryouth: They where founded in 1926 with 100.000 this rised to 8.7 Mio. in 1939... 10% of hole Germans. DJ "Deutsche Jungvolk" are the Kids between 10-14 the real HJ are from 14-18 years old. Something they have (should) to do every week: 1. (2 hours) Afternoon games without equipment (like balls) some gymnastic. 2. Boxing, but only if a trainer is available. This i translated with a specific programm: (1 Sunday morning about 3-4 hours) Instruction: Map customer 1:25000. Get along after sun and clock setting-up of the map. In the area: Get along in the area after the map 1:25 000 connected with small tasks of orientation. Order exercises: About 15 minutes of individual training process and closed order of the group. Or: (1 Sunday morning about 4 - 6 hours) Exercise march: 10-15 kilometers with 5-10 kilograms luggage, ever after age and efficiency, connected with structure of camp, Abkochen etc. ever after weather, or with tasks of orientation with and without compass; Description of area, utilization of area, camouflaging, distance treasures. Or: Area or road run: About 5-8 minutes, speed after the weakest ones arrange, good runners into special departments together-let. Or: (1 Sunday morning about 3-4 hours) Instruction: Repetition: Map customer 1:25000. Get along after sun and clock, polar star, land forms, description of area. In the area: Get along in the area after the map. Find from visible points in the area on the map. Sehuebungen: Goals on proximity and distances construct, a goal recognize and describe, distance treasures. Or: (1 Saturday afternoon about 2-3 hours) Repetition: Gunnery: Procedure with the shot outside of the weapon. Triangle goals: Notice sitting at the first shot table and lying presented. Goals and Abkruemmen, etc.. Source: Official gazette of the realm youth guidance from 15 March 1934 (Institut for Contemporary history, Munich railways. 44.02). Those things i learned in my Armytime (Bundeswehr) and those little buggers startet with 10 years to read maps...omg.

haha... exactly the way i stopped my model career.. I remember, i hade a battleship, not sure if it was the Scharnhorst or the Iowa class...but i know it was a Battleship with 9 guns 3x3. I found in a model store a real cheap engine hwo you can put it with a suction cup under those ships. Maybe this was more for bathroom gaming.. The next step was to open the allready builded ship and filling with fire crackers, can tell you, it wasnt the smallest ones.. then i made out of a lot igniter cord -- does exist a other word for it? a long one. To made it short...the next lake was mine...and of course, also for the ship.. I didnt know before, which exquisite pyromaniac i am.. Hollywood should hire me.. The same way i destroyed the red barons proud, a red triplane and a early WWII Henschel. I hade some other models but to destroy a StugIII never! Im a Stug lover from the first second...my Tiger one i couldn hurt also. The way to play with my little soldiers in the garden of my parents was to simulate handgrenades with those mini crackers and the replacement for a flamethrower, i used a small squirt filled with gasoline -(we found it in a abandoned scrap iron place). Its 20-25 years since...and it seems, nothing had changed.. :cool:

I wanted only to show the pre-war differences. Im the last who tried to make someone beliving, the US, Canadians or whoever, doesnt made sport. But the like how the germans eliminated mill. of jews, with the same ambition they construct a giant army, unmatched in history. Even the allies trained her soldier mutch harder in 41, this has nothing to say. People who knows a bit about sports, will tell you, that it requires a lot more to fill the gap between an untrained man and one who made sports since his early youth. There are many parts to made a "good" soldier...yes, you dont need to be a 100 meter goldmedall winner, to be a succesfull tankgunner..but the overall physic conditions are only a part from the hole. Again, you want really compare a german 39-41 army with the pitiful remainders in 44? Come on...till then, the germs lost more Officers then the hole western allies "normal" soldiers altogether. Like a proverb says: "the best dies first", and after 3 Mill. deads, there arent mutch left...especialy for such a small country.

To speak for the germans as a german..its like playing with white tigers.. Im wondering, why no one mentioned how the germans were prepared for war, mentaly like physikaly. The young boys came into the Hitler Youth and became brain washed before they can think for herselfs. I dont say career soldiers like Rangers, Commandos were worser than the best german counterparts, but the mass of german soldiers physis and overal moral was far better then of any country, at this time in the world. That doesnt mean germans are from their birth are better soldiers or fighters, under the right circumstances, every human is able to do so. The hole country, or lets say the most of it hade to make what we would today call the first aerobic wave....even such stupid sports disciplines like handgrenade throwing included this...(record was 78m ). I`ve never read, or heared from a vet., that not to go to the army or possible not to fight maybe even to the death, was an option. There was a lot more to put in this theory...like military history of the familie, the high overal educatinonal standard and the willigness to fight for the fatherland..after the mid of war the losses of the own home and the destroyed infrastructure can be ad to the stay and die mentality.To say there was no differences compared to other nations is ignorant. I do not need to wait on an answer...it will end like discussions with my dad which football team is the best.. To ad: i prefer to play with blue + german equipment against green + allied eq. and vice versa. All others brings the danger to be called a right wing or N... at least here in germany. [ October 06, 2003, 07:12 PM: Message edited by: K_Tiger ]

Im not 100% sure if its right, but i saw some years ago a documentation about Russia and they sayed, that the country, till today, never fully recovered by the losses they take in the war and after it true Stalin and "Friends"... As example they statet also, today lifed 800.000 more Women in Moskau than Males. Hope its from interest.

Isnt it funny enough to play with alpinis in the desert?.. Sorry, couldn resist...

Isnt it funny enough to play with alpinis in the desert?.. Sorry, couldn resist...

Thx..now i know one more word in english. The other tree i know allready..but delectable i never read before.

Thank you for the flowers Michael...or was it sarkasm? Cant find a description in my dictionary for the word -delectable-...is this a own creation?

Hi Mr. Dorosh.. Hmmm.. you are thinking the poor civilians hade a choice to surrender? Im skeptical at this...with the figthing man busy on the front and the Gestapo in the back...plus the outstandingly Bombing of civilians who put them more together, from the ideology standpoint. The only group was the military who was able to stop AH and his comrades...but after 43 he put to many AH faithfools into the Wehrmacht...not to mention the growing up SS-Units. Some Generals tryed it...but this crap wont die...so the History ended how wie know it today...and no Civilian revolt hade stopped this.

@Rexford Is there a special reason why the HE from Tiger I`s hade such a high MV? Is it possible that they used Anti-Air Projektiles against Ground Units?

Maybe he means the place where we dont want to be at last... I would say for myself, its in front of Moskow...without the proper clothes.. not to mention those boots with steel nails in it... At all, to be wounded in the could is one of my nightmares...

Heul doch! are there any games outside where you cant be gamey? I mean without thousend of rules who cut the main of fun out of the game. CC2 hade one of the best Grand Campaigns i ever saw on a screen and thus a lot of fun and thrill. It hade also drawbacks, like pivoting tanks when you dont need it..ect.

Fighting in Italy till 45`?? Anyone info where the last battles were fought?

Yeah, you are great... The effective range was more something around 100 meters. Better than nothing, if you ask me. One of the advantages are the light weight and the possibility to change the position after firing the gun. Allways better than to climb on a tank... :cool:

@LongLeft... If i understand him right, he was told how to engage Tigers...but he didnt mentioned that he did it actualy!? Those fantasies from alone, single Tigers (or anything else in this category) isnt the norm, if it happend at all. If you know something about Tank tactics, you will see on the Field at least two Tanks, one does mostly give cover from behind....(no, i doesnt mean on the ...parade :eek: ). Another question is, how long the "bait" lifes after he comes into the firelane of an ennemy tank? If he survive a second shot, he must be a lucky one. Not really enough time for the "catcher" to reach a possible 80-90 degree position to a Tiger for a sure penetration. The single story sounds like..."...Hands up, you are surounded, we are two..." Maybe the last they heard, was laughter....

Wasn`t the norm to carry stuff around...but take this: PAK40+PzII

@Grisha: Wasn`t it more a matter of equipment? How would the russian "Operational art" looks like without hundred of thousend of U.S. made Trucks and other mobile equipment? Now it`s the "germans" why not say A.H. himself was the poor understander (yeah...spelling.. ) Dont think you can blame the Army staff for A.H.`s mistakes!

Seriously, its fore sure a prototype "Wanze" with single-barreled Panzerschreck. The other "thing" looks like "tank with full pants "...

Is it me, or do the CM-JSII turret looks smaller and longer then it does the real thing? Schouldn he looks more like the T-34/85 turret? I mean, more bulkier, "balloon"-like!? The real thing is ugly like hell...but the cm one is a beautie.

I`m still laughing....

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