BFCElvis

Wankers.

Plays great from the US side as well. I played the US in WEGO (haven't single player that way in some time). Ended up with a draw. Lots of nice and nasty surprises and the AI defended well. This is looking like a "must play" scenario.

Wankers.

Para, I played RT as Syrian and the US AI acted great. They were aggressive but not stupid. From what I have seen designing the AI plans is the most challenging and important thing about a CMSF. I might play it from the other side tonight.

What a dandy battle. Loads of fun. I would love to play it MP sometime.

Wankers.

Runyan99, if you don't number there is never confusion. If the file is named ElvisvsRunyan99 then the only possible file that is in play is that one. Less confusion.

The pathfinding was spot on. Exactly where I ordered them. And you're right that standoff was great. Certainly a CM:SF "WOW" moment. I thought I had killed yours and got away clean. Then I noticed mine was dead too. Very cool.

You could ahve Brent. I had 3 squads, a leadership squad and a BMP. 5 total units on a very small map. Actually a blast of a scenario. Probably and EXCELLENT first RT scenario for someone. Al Huqf Engagement is the name.

Not my intention.

What do I hate about CMSF? I hate that PBEM numbers PBEM files. I have always been opposed tothem except for specific situations like writing an AAR, testing of some sort, or a meta campaign type thing. But this auto numbering is a pain in the arse if you can't talk your opponant out of it. I have turns that appear in the 4th page of the "saved games" folder when loading a PBEM file. And heaven help you if you are playing the same scenario with 2 people. Edited to avoid torrent [ August 03, 2007, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Elvis ]

First 2 or 3 albums usually are good because they are releasing their lifes work at that point. Third is usually the clunker. With Elvis My Aim is True and This Years Model and Armed Forces are brilliant. Then the pedestrian Trust was released. This was followed up by perhaps the greatest and most underrated Imperial Bedroom. Worth a download at .99 per song. After getting into it you'll be offering to send more money.

Wankers.

Tauschitz, I completely understand and I am not trying to convertanyone. You can like whatever you like. I'm mearly saying that almost everyone who has had the game for a significant period of time changed their opinions (and not because we were guided to or asked..I don't think Steve and Co. give a damn which mode people like to play as long as they play it). And most (myself included) were deeply entrenched turn based players. It my not sound like it from my post but I was resistant and outraged by even the idea that CM was going to be made real time. Pissed me off more than hearing it wasn't going to be WW2. But like they have done in the past in their games they are rarely wrong about what is entertaining to play.

I played Speedy TCP the other day in Dagger Fight and in that both of us had units on the opposite sides of the map. I heard no complaints from him about being able to handle it and it was his first TCP game..he was not a tester. That being said I agree with what you are saying. And as I said in my first post I don't play huge TCP battles in CMx1 or 2. Andkeeping ack of units spread all over can be very very hard. All I was trying to say is that it is patently no true that CMSF RT (single player or TCP) in close to impossible to play. That's all. I was taking eception to the "impossible" part. I never said I could or would enjoy playing any scenario you could name RT TCP.

If you agree with him that the game is impossible to play using RT (either TCP or solo) then you are both wrong and are giving the wrong impression to others. You may not like it and it may not be for you but it is FAR from imposssible. Myself and others have been doing it for months. Using the T and Y keys to move between order menus and choosing ordsers and the mouse for camera control and unit selection the game becomes almost second nature once you've done it for a little bit. It still might be your bag and I'm not trying to convince you that it will be but please stop making false assertions about the playability of the game. There is a very big difference between "I have been trying this for a couple of days and don't feel comfortable with it and don't think I ever will" or "I hate RT somuch I'm not even going to try TCP RT" and "it is close to impossible to play this". Know what I meen?

securityguard, while I understand your desire for TCP WEGO you are very wrong in saying " as right now tcp/ip is pretty much impossible to handle." It is not even close to impossible to handle and there are people who have been handling it well for months. So please, it isn't helpful to make untrue statements it gives people stopping in this thread who haven't tried it themselves yet the wrong idea.

Tauschitz, I may have been misunderstood. I have been playing turn based war games longer that 25 years and never liked the thought of real time. It is not that I "wish to move to RT games". What I am saying is that this game, CM:SF, after several months of playing has become MUCH more enjoyable to play in RT and that virtually everyone (except gibsom) that has played it for more than the 1 day that it has been out has also come to feel that way too. So what I was saying was perhaps before too many people end up feeling wronged and ripped off by BFC they should adjust to the different game and learn how it is played and..... perhaps.....not for sure but maybe...will feel differently. That's all I'm saying. And not for nuttin but if : "I want the clock stopped (completely) so that I can carefully and slowly consider my moves - and depending on the size of the game, that can be a considerable amount of time - and so that I can go over the replay numerous times, from numerous angles." If WEGO TCP is ever added you won't need to put me on your dance card. I'd lose what little mind I have if I was sitting here for a considerable amount of time waiting for my opponant to finsh their turn.

OK....I understand where all you guys are coming from and I'm gonna try to talk you out of the way you feel but I do have to chime in with some things to consider. Myself and a large number of the testers have been around CM for a very very very long time. In my mind WEGO was the ONLY way to play a tactical level simulation. But after playing CM:sf for a bit RT is the only way I play it (aside from PBEM of course). That is also true with almost every tester (I think there is only one guy that still only plays WEGO). If CMSF feels like a time crunch clickfest to you then you are playing the game wrong and need to change your mental approach to playing the game. Slow and methodical (just like WEGO CM is played) is what wins the day. The clock moving and not stopping while you think about your choices can make you jumpy until you learn to ignore that feeling you will struggle with RT after you let go of that you will find it is liberating. RT is not as time sensitive as you may be thinking. Most battles end long before the time runs out and the ones that don't there is usually "overtime" so the only real rush most of the time is self imposed. If you relax while playing it you will find that even in reat time you have plenty of chance to think your moves out. Now my personal prefence regarding TCP and any CM. Aside from fears about clickfest here are a couple of things I've read here. "With RT TCP you can't play the really big battles because you can't keep track of everyone on the map". This is true. But for my taste whenever I play a CMx1 TCP game I always look for a small premade scenario I have never played before. I can't stand playing big CMx1 TCP battles. I either feel quilty about making the guy I'm playing wait while I watch everything twice and then plot a large amount of units or I get frustrated sitting in front of the screen waiting while the guy I'm playing watches a couple of times and plots a large amount of units. For that reason I don't play big CMx1 TCP battles anyway so that point for me is moot. Another comment is wanting to have the time to consider your moves between turns. For me it gives the same feelings as the large battle scenario. I don't want to sit for 10-15 during TCP and wait while someone ponders their moves. PBEM fine..live it up...but not while I'm sitting there waiting. The only thing I see as really missing with RT TCP is the replay. I don't normally replay much but I do replay some so it is missed. Here is what I gain...I can play a entire interesing battle with ebbs and flows in under 1 hour...often under 1/2 hour. Instead of issuing orders for a squad to enter a building and then finding out 10 seconds into the movie that there is an ambush in the building and spending the next 45 seconds watching them get torn apart I can change their orders to something that may save them. Instead of sitting in front of the computer waiting while the guy I'm playing finishes his plotting and watching the turn crunch then file transfer I can play and plot and execute orders. I'm here to tell you that isn't a bad trade off. Again, I am not pretending that everyone will be happy with this and you're all wrong. WHat I am suggesting is that before you dismiss the idea in broad sweeping strokes you get yourself used to the game and give it a chance. You may still hate it. But you may just be surprised.

This is fairly easy to answer also (if Steve doesn't beat me to it again). In real time the information is constantly being sent back and forth between the players. Much smaller packets of information so it looks seemless. In WEGO you are sending a full minutes worth of information with each turn and then you are back to the larger file sizes being tranferred. What I can't answer for you is why it can't just pause every 60 seconds or 30seconds or whatever. That is a completely different issue. I am only talkingabout you initial post about why WEGO is not included in TCP. Franky I rarely pause anymore with single player as it is and you may find yourself not pausing real time either once you've played the game for a while.

DAMN!!!!! Steve posted while I was typing mine!!!!! Way to steal my thunder Steve. But I am glad to see my assumption was correct.

Sorry I can't address all of your questions in the time I have securityguard but I think it is important that I talk about the big one. TCP real time. The answer to your question is in another persons question. A while back Steve got into a big debate here on the forum about the possibility of PBEM not being included in CMSF. At that time he said they weren't far enough into building it to know if they could even do PBEM and if so what other issues might come up from it. One of the possible issues he pointed out was that the PBEM file sizes might be so large that people would not be able to easily email them back and forth to each other. The response from the forum members was essentially "we don't care how big the files are just please don't exclude PBEM". So that is what they did. And sometimes (not normally) the files can be 14MB. I never had one that big. Most of mine have been in the 6MB range with the biggest coming in at almost 11MB. By comparision in CMx1 the bigger files were usually in the 1MB range. But BFC included PBEM anyway with CMSF because they were asked to include it regardless of the size of the files. Which brings us to your topic question (you can probably see where this is going). WEGO TCP is pretty much a PBEM/file swapping setup. How do you think WEGO TCP would go over with the crowd if each turn took 15 minutes to transfer as ParaBellum points out the email would take? Probably not very well. I hope that explains the dilema and the reason. Your topic title for this is : "What was the reasoning about TCP/IP being real time only?" Assuming that was not a rhetorical question I hope I have given you the reasoning.

Yeah, I use the the mouse exclusively for all camera movements.

Quick story I'll tell mainly in the intererst of bumping this thread because my window is closing quickly..... I think it was '87 my parents moved to Santa Barbara for a year. I flew out to visit them and noticed that The Pouges were opening for Los Lobos. Didn't give a damn about Los but I was dying to see The Pouges. Show starts and there are 6 empty seats in the front row center. So I sneak up and as I'm watching them I start thinking "damn thatguitar player looks just like Joe Strummer". Sure enough halfwaythrough the set he steps up and rips through London Calling and I Fought The Law. Singing them like he's on fire or something. Double treat that night.