George MC

One I'm working on - early stages of AI plan construct. I run an attack and see how I'd do it then plan then redo the AI defence accordingly! At the moment my first run, it did a good job of putting several AP shaped spanners in the works!

My attack, in the early evening, spearheaded by a small group of Panthers was bounced by some hidden Soviet PAK.One Panther burns in the near background. The other smoke is from a few burning T-34s that my Panthers had bounced just before. Close up of the burning Panther. The plume of smoke in the distance is a burning enemy T-34. they are dead easy to spot and hit, not so these bloody PAK! You can make out smoke from some mortars I dropped on the offending enemy PAK. Under cover of this fire, my surviving Panthers make a dash for some dead ground. Out of harm's way wait my SPW ready to follow up the Panthers attack. I'm hoping the fading light will limit any further long-range enemy anti-tank activity...

@akdthe film you like need to is the one I’m familiar with. What makes the section of film I linked to (appears to be newly discovered film as the guy I bought it from was just in the process of making a digital copy) unique is it shows the SPW, without armoured support, dealing with a variety of non armoured AT threats. It was surprising to see them being engaged by an ATR team and see the ATR target the SPW machine gunner. The film made it clear that the MG shield was no protection against an ATR. The attack by the SPW against the ATR also highlights the SPW driving in a zig zag to avoid being targeted. I’ve read of that tactic but interesting to see it being used in the film.

Aye interesting and unique film - the whole version is excellent - although there are only two fragments totalling ten minutes. What makes it unique is it illustrates the small unit tactics - battlefield recon, moving at speed through enemy artillery fire, heavy weapons (251/9 and 251/2 hanging back and suppressing or taking out enemy positions), platoon leader dismounting in cover to scope out enemy position, the attack moving at speed into and through the first line of the enemy positions (troops firing from the tracks) before dismounting to clear the main enemy position. Bit moot come 44 how much of that type of attacking would be going in (if it was I guess it is how it was portrayed here - sealing or eliminating enemy breakthrough) but certainly makes for interesting watching.

Just been watching a "new" German film with panzer grenadiers in action (not I should stress the usual one that crops up!) but a clip from this one: https://filmhauer.net/kampf-schtzenpanzerwagen-herbst-1944-p-6426.html In part 2 one of the SPW machinegunners is nailed from a distance by a Soviet ATR crew. Never seen that in "RL" before - but given training film it does illustrate a/ they were the guys the Soviet ATRs targeted and b/ the shield did not stop the bullet which punched through (pretty realistic depiction in the film) like a knife through butter.It has some great scenes with a mortar halftrack and gun track supporting the attack.

Thanks for this @raven80 they are superb screenshots - they bring the scenario to life. Glad you enjoyed the scenario. It started life out as wee test scenario during an early beta of CMBS to test map creating stuff. Nice to see it's settled into being a popular wee scenario. It's also one of my favourites. If you are interested another 'similar' one is "Morning Coffee" set in the same time frame and involves UKR and Russian troops.

I can across this whilst doing some youtube surfing. I was impressed by the production. The clip (taken from a German series called 'Dusty faces')shows a German unit in action in a small wooded area against some dug in Soviet infantry. A warning - it does contain some graphic scenes.

Hi @Hister Excellent job! I'm impressed with that.That's way better than anything I've managed in it! Re your comments: Possible spoiler hidden text There are several AI Plans - looks like you triggered one of the variations which has the armoured cars pulled out pronto but the circling back around (basically they are not looking for kills but spotting your units...). Your approach with the armour was spot on. The Panzer IVs can take a beating mine - were in a sorry state by the end of the campaign! Hardly any had operational radios and most had lost their tank commanders. Spoiler END This success will set you up well for the following missions. Thanks again for taking the time to post your comments - look forward to the next despatches from the front line. Cheery! George

Aye that's what I meant - apologies for any confusion! You are correct in RL (and in game) when it comes to threats from any anti-armour assets yup they are tin cans.

I was talking about their use in the context of the discussion with Jon - they are not as prone to losing crew to small arms fire as ordinary SPW are. Hence work better (anti-armour threats notwithstanding) as close support for dismounted panzer grenadiers.

Thanks Jon. Possible spoilers (highlight text to see) The PAK are cunning - took ages to sight them! The AI plan means the Soviet troops displace and relocate (fall back) to new positions. If you go too slow then they have time to relocate in the woods; if you go too fast then the PAK covering their withdrawal will take out your armoured vehicles. This mission makes a lot of use of AI plan triggers. The trick with that one is smoke and suppressing fire - and some luck. If you get it the combination right then the wood objective becomes easier. Spoilers end The gun tracks are really, really useful as they are near impervious to close range fire but the 75mm cannon pack a punch.handy for staying close with your dismounts. Thanks again and glad you enjoying it

Jings! nae idea! I have no such list for scenarios - its heaps and heaps! Stuff released with the actual games (I'm on the BFC scenario design team) and stuff I've released off my own back. Campaigns easy. Did one for CMSF (think it was called Armour Attacks) and done one for CMRT (Kampfgruppe von Shroif)

Hi @Hister Nae worries - enjoy! Cheery!

Hi @Hister Your plan sounds a good one, without giving too much away the other thing to work out is key terrain which provides good LOS/LOF... As it's pre-dawn vis is limited BUT it does become better as the scenario progresses. Possible Spoilers (highlight text below to see) So the enemy has limited LOS to your avenues of approach to start with. There are AI triggers so if you move stuff within their LOS they react. IIRC it is not an immediate reaction for all the units. But more a phased fighting withdrawal. Spoiler alert END The AI reactions are scripted and nothing to do with any Game Engine 4 funkiness. 'Fraid no idea myself re game engine 4 patch release. Looking forward to hearing how this one goes. Cheery! George

It all sounds good but I'm not sure players often get it as the norm is usually to hunt and kill stuff! I've used it on several occasions (even in another campaign) but sometimes it just confuses players. I'm not sure explaining it (and often players don't fully read the briefing) helps. Still, it's good to know its there.

Aye that scoring option has been in since CMSF days IIRC. It's not used often although I have played a few where it has been used and I know for sure I've used it in several scenarios myself. However, it's all or nothing - you can't allocate points for a 'spot' unit objective AND have the same unit as a 'Destroy' objective. In von Schroif I use it in several of the missions where you have the option to use your whole force (at risk of your whole unit being spotted) or peel off a small portion to eliminate the enemy thus ensuring the enemy does not have full intel of your main body. One of the advantages of a campaign is can give the player options and not just focus on casualties as an arbiter of 'success'. In the campaign the 'penalty' should the enemy spot too many of your units in the missions referred to above is they may be able to divert more resources to oppose your command, if they succeed in the 'spot' threshold in the previous mission, OR if the player succeeds they get into the enemy's command cycle and have the element of surprise in the next mission.

Hi Hister I did give the player a couple of 'Red Shirt' scout units in the first mission - just to ease them in! Aye the discussion re recce is an interesting one and full of variables. There is no 'one size fits all' approach. As a designer, I'm aware players often like to lead with scouts... Hence there will be a counter in place where it counts... BTW snipers are excellent spotters - you don't have to get within firing range - the fact they have scopes and binos is their key strength I think. So keeping this team out of harm was a good move - you'll find them very useful in future missions so treat em right! Re the victory conditions - yup how this works in CM for victory conditions if the enemy spot a marked unit they get points (much like how they would if they 'killed' the unit).Does not matter if you kill them after they spot you. This reflects these Soviet units as recce in their own right. Their job is to get intel on where a German attack is coming from and what strength. I'm still working on the other campaign - taking a bit longer now my wife and I have a wee baby. I've way less free time than I used to have. The campaign is coming along though. Cheery! George

I prefer playing large maps in CMRT so 500m is pretty close range. In western Europe you'd struggle to get ranges above and beyond that in RL - there is often too much stuff cluttering up line of sight. In recent scenarios I've been playing I've 2000m engagement ranges with most tank fire taking place at 1200m. The trick with using armour is not to use em as targets. You can always dismount a crew (and I do this a lot) to take a look (just make sure you are certain there are no enemy infantry lurking just ahead... If the unbuttoned vehicle commander has binoculars then yes they'll spot just as well, although you only have one pair of eyes spotting with binos. Mind any player worth their salt will not expose an AT asset to plink at some infantry scouts. You have to get the scouts really close to spot a hidden AT asset and then, any player (or scenario designer laying out the AI units) will ensure that the AT assets have dismounts guarding their perimeter. I've not said I don;t use infantry scouts just I'm really particular where and I how I use them. In this campaign (von Schroif) your infantry are pretty precious so potentially using em as targets is and itself wasteful. In this case I'm all for recce by fire on possible enemy locations. I don't need to lose a scout team to tell me where key terrain locations are cos, a/ I've ID this terrain at the start b/ assume if I have ID key terrain so has the enemy, so I assume they are there and use area fire accordingly. Or avoid that terrain and the zones it covers.

Erwin’s comments are useful info, and an approach I’d take in close terrain. However what I’ve struggled with in the past is how to recce over more open terrain, or where there is a great deal of real estate between your forces and the objective and where this approach will take forever and an age to accomplish or where MG fire from long range enemy MGs can pretty much stall this type of recce.. I think that any intel you get at the start of the mission is key, as, hopefully, this may well give you an indication of the direction the enemy are in, maybe what sort of force and the context of your mission – are you conducting a move to contact in a hyperdynamic fluid combat situation or a set piece attack against a well-fortified and dug in enemy, or any degree thereof. This is the key part of the recce puzzle in my view as this will inform your whole approach for at least the initial stages of the mission. The key part of conducting your movement to contact is using the terrain to your advantage. Also when it comes to recce there are several options I use most often and a few variations around them. ‘Eyes on’ – this can be achieved from cover and/or distance and when done can ensure your ‘spotters’ or ‘spotter’ are concealed. ‘Recce by fire’ – in this approach you are looking to persuade the enemy to either unmask their position by engaging back, or to force them to relocate. This can be a wee bit risky when it comes to direct fire especially if the enemy have assets that can drill your armour from long range. With direct fire it works better if you can stand off and use the long-range shooting capability of armoured assets. However worth minding it can also be used (assuming you have enough arty assets) by FOOs (arty spotters) or equivalent e.g. platoon HQ calling in mortar fire. So if I’m attacking/moving across open terrain the first thing I’ll do is scout out terrain on the map and check at what point my units are most likely to come into range from hostile fire. Most times your set-up zone (hopefully!) will be out of initial contact, so you just have to slowly move your lead elements up and into position where they can get ‘eyes on’ the next bit of terrain. So Erwin’s description of moving infantry scouts forward works well. I’ve a slightly different take on this (call it another option) I tend to play armoured based missions more, so my lead units are often at least two tanks with others keeping watch. You can move armour into a ‘turret down’ position which with the commander unbuttoned means he can spot without the tank being spotted. The key here is staying put for a while allowing your commander time to survey the area. SPW troops with everyone unbuttoned can do the same. Once I’ve checked the ground ahead out I’ve several options. This next bit is where the work you’ve done pre hitting the ‘go button’ will reap benefits. You should have at least a vague idea where your enemy is lurking. So if no immediate contact is expected I’d have one element move fast from cover to cover and ensure I have other units in overwatch. If I’m moving into where I think the enemy may have LOF then I’ll consider how to neutralise any possible enemy fire OR mask my approach. If dealing with PAKs then MGs targeting likely spots as suppressing fire work very well. You’ve loads of MG ammo especially on tanks and SPW so use it! Mind you are banking that the enemy PAK will hold their fire until the last minute, so this approach assumes you are engaging at long range say 1000m+ and from hull down positions so if anyone opens fire back you can back out of fire. For masking then you might wish to cover possible enemy flanking spots or your approach using smoke. You've got a few possible options for using long range smoke – in this campaign, your Panzer IVs have lot’s of smoke shells; your SPW cannon have smoke and your mortars. So I’d suggest using smoke to mask your flanks/front if the possible enemy firing positions are numerous and you’ve no hope of neutralising all of them using MG fire. As and when the terrain/LOS/LOF becomes more complex with close range ambushes more likely then this approach relies more on dismounts (as described by Erwin) going ahead and checking approaches. Hope this short outline helps for some other options – particularly for using on larger maps with mech heavy units.

It can be done - but I tend to get impatient especially towards the end of a mission and that's when I lose stuff due to carelessness. I've played it through without any reloads (after some earlier attempts) but found the later missions tough, albeit doable. However, it is not an easy campaign nor would I class any of the missions as 'easy'. And you have to be on your game when it comes to combined arms tactics. So defo one for the more experienced CM player - assuming reloads are kept to a minimum/none. Your panzer grenadiers have panzerfausts but no long range AT capability - so yes, your armour will have to take up the slack in that respect. Your panzer grenadiers mortars though are very, very useful. Just a shame they don't work when in the SPW. One thing about engine 4 I do wish was carried over into CMRT. You'll find the biggest threat your armour and SPW face are PAK, just like in the real deal. Armour is actually pretty easy to take care off. PAK tend to stay hidden till the last moment...

Hi @Hister Nice one Glad you are enjoying it. Just keep an eye on grenadier casualties and don't let them mount up too much... Good work on letting the tanks do some of the heavy lifting, but as you found out keep your grenadiers close! Although like you when I've played this I've done more than a few mission 'tactical' reloads!

He! Interesting off-topic discussion. Loved Rab C when it came out. "Still Game" a worth predecessor!

Aye ATRs are pretty deadly - you can see why the Soviets fielded em even late war when the Germans still ran about with half tracks and such like, plus they make a mess of the vision blocks, radio aerials etc of tanks. Combined arms is key to success in this campaign - so close support dismounted infantry with closed up armour are still vital... Re accents - not so bad my part of the world where I now live. Where I'm from not so easy! This is my voice narrating this wee video: See? Dead easy to make out!

Cheers ta - let me know how you get on? I'd be keen to re-do this in CMSF2.

Aye close range engagements with SPW don't end well for the crews. Interestingly the RZM book about KG Muhlenkamp shows most of the crews with their heads down when the SPW are advancing to contact and the MGs unmanned. Glad you appreciate the immersion factor. Given there are no replacement grenadiers I was hoping to encourage players to look after their grunts and treat them with care. However as the action hots up and gaps start to appear in your unit, plus you start to lose the original officers and NCOs (marked with an *), every single KIA or MIA will sting even more. It also brings home that you can't go to war and expect not to lose troops. Thanks for the update - I'm sure you'll find your stride with this initial mission - mind my top tip - "read the briefing" Ca' canny and awra best as we say in Scotland!