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Frenchy56

Fortress Italy bugs

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6 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

Well, the Hermann-Goering Division had Panzergrenadiers, there were no organic Fallschirmjaeger mechanized units.

This is the only time Fallschirmjaeger show up in any Luftwaffe panzer unit. You can see this by visualizing units in the scenario editor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Fallschirm-Panzer_Division_Hermann_Göring

7D1B4507434C318BA436CE14E7AFB825D83D72B3

I'd say this is a bug where the wrong character models were assigned. The vehicle commander also appears to be driving the vehicle in some instances.

It seems that they should all be wearing Luftwaffe Assault Gun uniforms instead, when comparing it to equivalent Heer units. The commander should wear his peaked cap and the driver his side cap. The rest of the crew should be wearing regular infantry helmets.

The names of the formations they're from are Luftwaffe "Panzergrenadier Battalion 43A [armored]", "Panzergrenadier Battalion 43B [armored]"  and "Panzergrenadier Battalion 44 [armored]" 

For definition sake it is not a bug. It may be a wrong decision, but it was decision. A bug is something not intended. For this to move forward the best option would be if someone could provide an actual pic from the HG division to show they are wrong or provide some other data form that will definitively show what it should be. 

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We don't really know if this is even a decision. Maybe there was a mistake while copy-pasting character names, it could be anything, really.

I think it would be worth it to report this. Simply the fact that Fallschirmjaeger were not a core part of the Fallschirm-Panzer Division Hermann Goering, despite its name, is indicative of it. Nor does it seem like they officially received equipment like Fallschirmjaeger helmets or Knochensacks, especially to equip Stummel crewmen and only Stummel crewmen.

They did notably receive Waffen-SS camouflage smocks, however.

 

By the way, we do agree that the "Open Up" command thing is most likely a bug, right?

Edited by Frenchy56

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1 hour ago, Frenchy56 said:

We don't really know if this is even a decision. Maybe there was a mistake while copy-pasting character names, it could be anything, really.

I think it would be worth it to report this. Simply the fact that Fallschirmjaeger were not a core part of the Fallschirm-Panzer Division Hermann Goering, despite its name, is indicative of it. Nor does it seem like they officially received equipment like Fallschirmjaeger helmets or Knochensacks, especially to equip Stummel crewmen and only Stummel crewmen.

They did notably receive Waffen-SS camouflage smocks, however.

 

By the way, we do agree that the "Open Up" command thing is most likely a bug, right?

We who?  My understanding it is a decision with a rationale provided above. I can not open a ticket without evidence it is wrong. What I can and have done is taken it to the beta team for discussion. It is by no means a closed discussion. Just too early and the feedback above was one initial comment.  

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2 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

 

By the way, we do agree that the "Open Up" command thing is most likely a bug, right?

Regarding this one I will need to check. If behavior is consistent I am not sure it is a bug. The question may simply be what is the function of the “open” command and is it applicable here. If it isn’t applicable then no it isn’t a bug. 

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29 minutes ago, sburke said:

Regarding this one I will need to check. If behavior is consistent I am not sure it is a bug. The question may simply be what is the function of the “open” command and is it applicable here. If it isn’t applicable then no it isn’t a bug. 

Well, about the differences between Ausf. C and Ausf. D, could it be found that something is inconsistent? They are supposed to be practically the same vehicle after all.

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36 minutes ago, sburke said:

We who?  My understanding it is a decision with a rationale provided above. I can not open a ticket without evidence it is wrong. What I can and have done is taken it to the beta team for discussion. It is by no means a closed discussion. Just too early and the feedback above was one initial comment.  

Okay, thanks, let's wait a bit then.

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5 minutes ago, Frenchy56 said:

Well, about the differences between Ausf. C and Ausf. D, could it be found that something is inconsistent? They are supposed to be practically the same vehicle after all.

Possibly. Will definitely take a look. 

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You still haven't told us where you found this. It would appear from this most recent pic that you have some ground troops wearing HG PG Division uniforms, and some wearing camo smocks. Not something I've noticed before.

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19 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said:

You still haven't told us where you found this. It would appear from this most recent pic that you have some ground troops wearing HG PG Division uniforms, and some wearing camo smocks. Not something I've noticed before.

It's from the scenario editor, inside the Luftwaffe Panzergrenadier Battalion [armored] 43A, 43B and 44 formations.

I'm using mods which give the Panzergrenadiers Waffen-SS camo smocks and Luftwaffe camo tunics. I guess I should take them off for more clarity.

Edited by Frenchy56
Oops, I didn't say that actually

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8 hours ago, Frenchy56 said:

Well, about the differences between Ausf. C and Ausf. D, could it be found that something is inconsistent? They are supposed to be practically the same vehicle after all.

I looked in several games CMRT, CMFI, CMFB.  All have the same behavior.  As to stance will need to look.

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Regarding FJ helmets in HG PzD, here's a pic of Panzerdivision Hermann Göring's member wearing such an helmet:

Scharfschützen.jpg

In 1944 East Prussia though but still, it might not have been the only one ever. Could be a decision to add the paratroopers incorporated into the division since North Africa?

Source : https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=837435#p837435

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Sure, maybe some Fallschirmjaeger helmets may have gotten into some HG division infantrymen's hands.

However, it seems like a very weird choice for only Stummel crews to be affected.

sdkfz_10.jpg

In theory you can already model them. Their organization didn't change from the original Fallschirmjaeger regiment, though it seems they were annihilated in Tunisia, which makes it doubtful that they fought in Sicily or Italy.

 

Maybe someone else has documentation on the HG div. Personally I have a library of WW2 aviation books that my dad, who is almost repulsed by anything that has to do with fighting on the ground, owns.

Edited by Frenchy56

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The guys (both gunners) feet and legs hang way out of the bottom of the m2 halftrack. Even standing the front gunners feet are seen via sides. this bug was probably already posted.

Edited by user1000

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13 hours ago, user1000 said:

The guys (both gunners) feet and legs hang way out of the bottom of the m2 halftrack. Even standing the front gunners feet are seen via sides. this bug was probably already posted.

I haven't checked anything, but when vehicles spawn, the crew that can be seen from the exterior is in the middle of transitioning animations, which can cause clipping.

The angle of the terrain the vehicle is on can also cause crew clipping.

 

EDIT: Ok, I've checked it and it's definitely not right. You can see the front and rear gunner's legs.

Sitting:

2886F5DB4629AC578F00C8302C393125AEB3D0AE

Standing:

BEAE68C0336B9D46A09BF2C9ACBA39FA63F8B6C7

Edited by Frenchy56

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On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 10:44 AM, Frenchy56 said:

Sure, maybe some Fallschirmjaeger helmets may have gotten into some HG division infantrymen's hands.

However, it seems like a very weird choice for only Stummel crews to be affected.

sdkfz_10.jpg

In theory you can already model them. Their organization didn't change from the original Fallschirmjaeger regiment, though it seems they were annihilated in Tunisia, which makes it doubtful that they fought in Sicily or Italy.

 

Maybe someone else has documentation on the HG div. Personally I have a library of WW2 aviation books that my dad, who is almost repulsed by anything that has to do with fighting on the ground, owns.

Apart from the final sentence, what exactly are you saying here?

If this is something related to the exotic cocktail of helmets, uniforms and Stummels then you have failed to make your case.

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13 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Apart from the final sentence, what exactly are you saying here?

If this is something related to the exotic cocktail of helmets, uniforms and Stummels then you have failed to make your case.

Basically, there's Fallschirmjaeger manning Luftwaffe Panzer Division Stummels.

I think there's something wrong with that. Because they appear only inside the Stummels. And because Fallschirmjaeger didn't historically appear in these armored units.

 

You read my earlier posts about the subject, right? It would be obvious that you would be confused if you only read this post.

Edited by Frenchy56

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5 minutes ago, Frenchy56 said:

Basically, there's Fallschirmjaeger manning Luftwaffe Panzer Division Stummels.

I think there's something wrong with that. Because they appear only inside the Stummels. And because Fallschirmjaeger didn't historically appear in these armored units.

So where is the Stummel in the WW2 image you posted? I see a couple of individuals with FJ type helmets and some with different headgear in an image for which you offer no context.

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10 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

So where is the Stummel in the WW2 image you posted? I see a couple of individuals with FJ type helmets and some with different headgear in an image for which you offer no context.

Read my earlier posts, please, if you haven't already. You don't seem to be taking this with the right foot.

There's not supposed to be a Stummel in the image because I'm trying to argue that Fallschirmjaeger aren't supposed to man Stummels, and only Stummels, in-game. Apparently, it's not going through?

Edited by Frenchy56

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2 minutes ago, Frenchy56 said:

Read my earlier posts, please, if you haven't already. You don't seem to be taking this with the right foot.

I didn't explain it, but I posted the image to point out that there were indeed people wearing Fallschirmjaeger helmets in the HG div's armored units in Italy. Though these blokes might actually be Fallschirmjaeger attached to an HG armored unit for some reason.

No I've read them and there are inconsistencies with your first post on the topic of Stummel crews. As to the WW2 image, it is always going to help your case if you can source it or give some context.

Otherwise, you have made some great observations and as @sburke said earlier, keep them coming.

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1 minute ago, Combatintman said:

No I've read them and there are inconsistencies with your first post on the topic of Stummel crews. As to the WW2 image, it is always going to help your case if you can source it or give some context.

Otherwise, you have made some great observations and as @sburke said earlier, keep them coming.

Right, I shouldn't have posted that image without any explanation.

Mind if I ask what was inconsistent with the first post?

Edited by Frenchy56

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26 minutes ago, Frenchy56 said:

Right, I shouldn't have posted that image without any explanation.

Mind if I ask what was inconsistent with the first post?

You have yet to show an image of a Stummel in a LW armoured unit to prove your point about how the crews should be dressed.

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