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Soft launch... CMBS Battle Pack 1

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General Comment re Battles 1 and 2 of new Russian Campaign:

 

********** SPOILERS ***********

 

 

 

In both missions the AI (or designer) makes it easier for the human player as the Ukrainian forces make stupid suicidal attacks that run into Russian ambushes.  In Mission #1, first there are (IIRC) 3 IFV's that for no reason break from ambush positions and advance into the Russian forces and are easily killed.  Next comes a slightly more clever flanking maneuver by two Ukrainian tanks.  But, if one has left any kind of spotters in the buildings, those can be easily intercepted by the two T-90's.

In Mission #2 I just experienced on one flank a platoon of IFV's attacking through the woods straight into my inf armed with AT plus BMP's backing em up.  On the other flank what seems like a single IFV just attempted the same thing. 

Couldn't help but think that these suicide forces would have been much more effective if they'd stayed in ambush positions.

Player note:  You have the same recce company in Mission #2 (sans the AT teams and snipers) - so casualties suffered in Mission #1 hurt.  And ammo resupply is dodgy, so ammo conservation is important too.  I like this requirement to conserve force.   Many other campaigns were made a bit silly cos it seemed like you received fresh forces at the start of every mission - which does a disservice to the capabilities of the CM2 system.

Edited by Erwin

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OK, started playing the Battle Pack 1 with single battle called "Honor".

****SPOILER ALERT!****

And I have to say it kinda sucks - and here's why.

It's a US Stryker company assault on 3 compounds held by russian motorized batallion(?) together with a support of two T90A platoons.

Now the worst thing about this mission is that it does not make sense from the tactical standpoint. Russians are heavily outnumbering Americans and to assault an enemy position you need at least 3:1 advantage realistically (and 8:1 if it's a town - which it is - ideally) - but not only that - they also possess tanks and some MANPADS - which are impossible to spot with drones (and you have to get lucky to guess the position to begin with). And if those MANPADS get to your only Apache... well...

And, yeah, CMBS is a game and 3:1 advantage for US perhaps will make the mission too easy, so I'm not arguing in favor of that. What I'm arguing for is to balance forces at least somewhat adequately. Ask yourself a question - will NATO command even consider sending soft-armored company to deal with such a major entrenched force armed with tanks?

Yeah I did get 'tactical victory' on my walkthrough so I did win - but at what cost?

http://i.imgur.com/CcrA1g6.jpg

Edited by kraze

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38 minutes ago, kraze said:

OK, started playing the Battle Pack 1 with single battle called "Honor".

****SPOILER ALERT!****

And I have to say it kinda sucks - and here's why.

It's a US Stryker company assault on 3 compounds held by russian motorized batallion(?) together with a support of two T90A platoons.

Now the worst thing about this mission is that it does not make sense from the tactical standpoint. Russians are heavily outnumbering Americans and to assault an enemy position you need at least 3:1 advantage realistically (and 8:1 if it's a town - which it is - ideally) - but not only that - they also possess tanks and some MANPADS - which are impossible to spot with drones (and you have to get lucky to guess the position to begin with). And if those MANPADS get to your only Apache... well...

And, yeah, CMBS is a game and 3:1 advantage for US perhaps will make the mission too easy, so I'm not arguing in favor of that. What I'm arguing for is to balance forces at least somewhat adequately. Ask yourself a question - will NATO command even consider sending soft-armored company to deal with such a major entrenched force armed with tanks?

Yeah I did get 'tactical victory' on my walkthrough so I did win - but at what cost?

http://i.imgur.com/CcrA1g6.jpg

How did your Javeline supply look ?

Does not those Strykers carry a bunch of those lovely little things ?

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Re PK vs PKP.  The manual doesn't mention PK, only PKP so I assumed they use same ammo.  However, the Co HQ has a PK but only 5.45mm ammo.  Other units have PKP's and carry both 5.45 and 7.62x54Rmm.  One has to have the Co and platoon HQ's acquire 7.62x54R ammo.  Is that correct?

Edit:  Argh. I just realized that the HQ's only have PK's when they are mounted.  When dismounted they only have AK74's. 

Also in my game the graphic for PKM in the weapon window is identical to PKP.  That may be a factor of the mounted/dismounted issue.  That's confusing.

Edited by Erwin

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1 hour ago, RepsolCBR said:

How did your Javeline supply look ?

Does not those Strykers carry a bunch of those lovely little things ?

Eh, dealing with the defending enemy armor was manageable. I've destroyed every armored vehicle in the end I think.

Now the T90A counterattack was... unexpected and problematic, because it caught my troops as they were crossing the ford (and the AI cut the retreat using arty - that was well done). Sure I had some static ones covering the crossing but T90A spotted them well before they could fire a missile with their thermals. I've dealt with that counterattack in the end using javelins but the price was very steep. Mostly because I didn't expect the tank push and one squad managed to miss the tank costing me 1 javelin launcher due to retaliation.

Javelins aren't very good vs. moving/assaulting tanks at such distances especially since to disarm whole squad it's enough that AT guy goes down. Granted they are great tools against defenders.

My main issue came due to the sheer number of enemies within the objective area - especially since all you have is 3 platoons, which by that time have taken some beating.

Edited by kraze

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59 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Re PK vs PKP.  The manual doesn't mention PK, only PKP so I assumed they use same ammo.  However, the Co HQ has a PK but only 5.45mm ammo.  Other units have PKP's and carry both 5.45 and 7.62x54Rmm.  One has to have the Co and platoon HQ's acquire 7.62x54R ammo.  Is that correct?

Edit:  Argh. I just realized that the HQ's only have PK's when they are mounted.  When dismounted they only have AK74's. 

Also in my game the graphic for PKM in the weapon window is identical to PKP.  That may be a factor of the mounted/dismounted issue.  That's confusing.

HQ platoon there is no single machine gun PKM / PKP, it only in the squads. HQ platoon  consists only of the platoon commander, radio operator and 1-2 snipers - if this is a company on the BMP.

В управлении взвода нет единого пулемёта ПКМ/ПКП , он только в отделениях . Управление взвода состоит только из командира взвода , радиста и 1-2 снайперов - если это рота на БМП . 

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I figured that the HQ's show they have a PK only when mounted.  So no need to have them acquire 7.62x54R ammo. It's confusing as it looks like they have the PK weapons but no ammo for them when mounted.  And no, the HQ's do not have snipers requiring 7.62x54R ammo either.  So, I have loaded the HQ's down with a thousand rounds (minimum amount one can acquire) of 7.62x54R for no reason.  :(   Another reason we need to improve the ACQUIRE system.

Also, in my game the PKM graphic is identical to the PKP.  That's not correct according to the manual.  (It's possible it's a mod issue.)

 

 

**********  SPOILERS  Mission #2 of new Russian Campaign  **********

 

 

The AI plan for the Ukrainian defenders continues to send out IFV's and tanks in strange pointless attacks vs the Russians.  And the Ukrainians get slaughtered.  If this keeps up, I could win Mission #2 like I did Mission #1 by simply killing the enemy rather than accomplishing objectives.  We shall see...

Surprisingly, the Russian BMP's turn out to be very effective vs the Ukrainian tanks.  Brave Russian BMP's do NOT blow smoke and withdraw when they see what seems like a superior and more dangerous tank - as opposed to the Russian T-90's which seem very skittish and withdraw at the slightest sign of trouble (eg laser warning).  

 

 

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"theAI plan for the ukranian defender continues to send out IFVs and tanks in strange pointless attacks"

I dont know if this is the case here but as it works now the triggers (terrain) have some limitations that makes scenario designing a bit tricky right now and still a bit of a guesswork on the part of the designer.

The terrainobjective trigger will allow the designer to start an AI move . Wich is obviously good ! But there is no way of knowing what kind of player-force that will trigger that move.

It could be a single armoured car or an entire tank company that moves through that terrainobjective and triggers the AI move order.

If the designer belives that the player will move a large force through that area and the player does not do that it might lead to some strange looking moves by the AI.

On the other hand if the designer have set up an AI move intended to deal with a smalll initial reconmove by the player and the player decides to attack through that area in force this AI move might also look wierd.

The terrain objective trigger will start the AI action regardless of the player force strenth triggering it

 

 

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Understood.  However, in these cases (Missions #1 and #2) the defender would be better off waiting in ambush.  Any attacks by the defender given the Russian strength (and vision/spotting capabilities) seems suicidal. 

Or, it could just be that I am such brilliant player.  Take your choice.

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2 hours ago, Erwin said:

Understood.  However, in these cases (Missions #1 and #2) the defender would be better off waiting in ambush.  Any attacks by the defender given the Russian strength (and vision/spotting capabilities) seems suicidal. 

Or, it could just be that I am such brilliant player.  Take your choice.

I choose to believe you're a war his the likes of which the world has never seen. Spartacus, Alexander, von Manstein, Rommel and Schwartzkopf all wrapped into one. :D

I may be misreading this, but is the scenario pack tied into a patch?

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My phone is not kind to me and I'm a bad checker haha. I meant to say that Erwin is a war GOD!

Though maybe a "war his" is a sort of demigod?  The machinations of the mind are endless... or something like that.

Edited by HerrTom

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Dispatches from "WAR GOD":

 

 

************* SPOILERS  Mission #2 - New Russian Campaign *************

 

 

The enemy attack on my left flank turned out to be a platoon effort - but it was easily destroyed by my three BMP's and inf with AT weapons.  However, the left flank effort to cross the ford got nasty when Ukrainian arty started falling and my inf was being slowly degraded. Had to pull em back a ways and waited for my own tank reinforcements and arty to finally fall.  Again, I shoulda let the recon do recon and not send out a BMP platoon and then sit there waiting.  Or, at least pull em all the way back when arty started spotting.  On the right flank we were stalled at the bridges as it was clear there were many ambush weapons trained on the bridges.  Again had to wait for the friendly arty to do its job with its 7-8 minutes wait each time.  Disaster when the Ukrainians found my FO's and started arty on them. Lost both FO's plus the air FO(!).  I think the AI gets an advantage as it always seemed to know which units were my FO's. 

Eventually, with enuff arty falling on enemy position, I just rushed a BMP platoon across the ford and that was successful as it shot up a lot of defenders there.  Went a bit too far and lost two more BMP's but a 2nd BMP platoon was following and secured the left flank.  Hoped to get tanks across but too late found out that tanks could not cross at the ford. 

Now it was a question of rolling up the left flank, while the tanks rolled down the bridges followed by BMP's.  Again most enemy AFV casualties were when their vehicles decided to make stupid moves. 

Eventually, killed enuff to get a TV again without taking the two town objectives.  But no bonus for friendly casualties.  Lost too much.  However, was happy that one entire BMP platoon was almost unused.

The challenge with Mission #3 will be that one of the two FO's only has one soldier so cannot be used as an FO.  I thought that issue had been fixed so that dead FO's were replaced. 

Also, while inf seems to have been replaced in Mission #3, ammo has not been replaced.  So, the tanks and BMP's are not at full load.

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**********  SPOILERS - Mission #3 New Russian Campaign ************

 

 

Good set up.  The player has about a company of armor plus almost a company of BMP/mech troops and some heavy arty.  You have advance over flat terrain with long-ish (well over 1000m) LOS (which is a nice change).  The Russian T72's play almost like M1's. I found myself spotting enemy armor with inf then sending a tank or two to the spotter's position where they easily killed any enemy tank or IFV.  Very satisfying.  Almost too easy.  So far killed about 5 Ukrainian tanks and maybe 8-9 IFV's.  And for the first time that I recall in CM2, I saw a friendly tank fire and hit a tree and the tree was vaporized!  So its next shot killed the enemy tank it was aiming at.  The biggest problem are the copious enemy ATGM's hiding everywhere.  Fortunately the T72's have Arena and it's been very effective at stopping any ATGM hits.  If an ATGM fires it gets killed almost immediately.  If this is a good sim of RL, it must be very depressing to fire your ATGM, see it be destroyed by Arena, and know that 2 seconds later you'll be dead.  Morale of other ATGM crews must hit rock bottom pretty damn fast.

This time there were no suicidal charges by the enemy (until about the halfway point when 3 enemy tanks made a rush down a flank). 2 easily killed, trying to get LOS to the third but my own tanks' smoke is obscuring.  Prepping for a Thunder Run of tanks and BMP's down the map.  Arty is what slows the Russians down.  Mortars in 5-6 minutes.  But the heavy stuff takes about 8-9 minutes. So, waiting for the heavy arty to prep the way.

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Did 3 US campaign missions thus far. Very enjoyable and well balanced - especially since urban combat is such a strong part of CM. Hopefully it stays this way. I miss being able to control tanks though, hopefully a few will be thrown into the mix down the road.

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**********  SPOILERS - Mission #3 New Russian Campaign ************

 

 

Halfway point to ten minutes to go.  Lost 3 of the six original T-72's to a fast attack by 6-8 Ukrainian tanks which used terrain cover to close the range rapidly.  It seems that the Russian T-72's can be used like snipers to spot and kill AFV's easily at 1000m+.  But once the Ukrainian tanks get closer than 500m, they Ukrainians seem to spot and fire more accurately.  Very strange... 

However, seven T-90's arrived as reinforcements and with the surviving T-72's and a few BMP's the Ukrainian "suicide" attack is destroyed.  One platoon of BMP's and inf are advancing up the road supported by one T-72 and the Tank Co CO in a T-90.  Am trying to spot and kill any surviving ATGM units.

Occupied the left hand side hill complex of trenches and found yet another three or four Ukrainian IFV's still alive there plus some enemy troops in trenches.  All destroyed now I think.  Lost about three BMP's so far, and 3 tanks, and maybe two to three dozen inf.  So, fairly good.  I plan to use smoke to blind any Ukrainians in the center and rear, and try for the left hand side exit (SW?) with a quick advance in the last minutes.

Very satisfying scenario so far.

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Finished Mission #3.  Got a Draw even tho' only suffered 4 tank and 4 IFV losses and 21 inf WIA or KIA vs Ukrainian 113 men KIA/WIA, 17 tanks and 10 IFV's.  Looks like I didn't inflict enuff damage on the Ukrainians and took too many losses (including the Tank Co CO's T-90).  Exited all other T-90's at SW Exit.

Very good scenario.  Large map, with a nice mix of about a company of armor and two companies of BMP mounted inf and 120mm, 150mm and 220mm arty. 

My plan was to pick one of the exits and focus attacks on that flank.  Seemed to work aside from leaving enemy mostly intact on the other flank which cost points.  Had plenty of arty left, so I could have used more.  However, ammo resupply is sketchy and I need to ensure I have some left for the next mission.

Still impressed at how the BMP's are able to easily spot enemy armor first at 1000m+ AND are willing to stand and fight vs tanks with their 30mm (and win!) while my tanks immediately freak out with smoke and retreat when lased.  It's almost as if knowing that you are being lased is worse than simply standing and immediately firing. 

Edited by Erwin

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BTW:  Another issue re FO's.  I had a couple FO leaders KIA/WIA in a previous mission.  In Mission #4 I get one FO who happens to be a Leader.  I thought that as a Leader this FO would be ok.  But, this FO Leader CANNOT spot for arty.

Any ideas...?

Edited by Erwin

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This is CMBS forum.  It was a one-man (Leader) FO.  IIRC so long as the FO is the leader he should be able to spot.  IIRC in CM2 one does NOT need a radio to spot for arty.

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7 hours ago, Erwin said:

BTW:  Another issue re FO's.  I had a couple FO leaders KIA/WIA in a previous mission.  In Mission #4 I get one FO who happens to be a Leader.  I thought that as a Leader this FO would be ok.  But, this FO Leader CANNOT spot for arty.

Any ideas...?

When you open the support panel does it say Denied over the different support assets or something else?  What rank is the "leader"? 

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Not sure of Russian rank.  I see two bars so maybe "Junior Sarge".  He is a Leader and it says "Denied" on all arty.  He does not have a laser designator or binoculars, only night vision.

Edited by Erwin

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**********  SPOILERS - Mission #4 New Russian Campaign ************

 

Erwin

Use any other officer, platoon leader and above. But better commander of the reconnaissance platoon, if such remained. I myself came across a large number of ATGMs.

Edited by HUSKER2142

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