AttorneyAtWar Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am seeing a common theme with your requests.. a lot of infantry,, much of it SMG... that we can do for sure. Armor, yes the Russian tank platoon has 3 tanks.. I need to explore the point costs of tank riders and their mounts... maybe I can afford more than one platoon? Indirect artillery. can I ask why you guys, almost all of you, would like of map artillery? My philosophy is, even though I do a lot of area fire, is that I hate wasting firepower.. and indirect artillery takes so long to come in that it can be wasted if it doesn't arrive in sync with the attack. However, I had a very successful artillery barrage in my AAR with ND (CMFI BETA AAR).. so maybe. But I prefer on map assets.. either SP guns or mortars. Yes I am thinking of bringing several trucks for resupply. Aircraft - I was thinking of perhaps buying two strafing IL2s, problem is they bring a big hit to the rarirty cost.. 79 to purchase, 257 rarity... But rarity might not be an issue for me: Tankodesantniki Company - 3 platoons, with two platoons of T-34/76 costs: 1711 points and 0 rarity. That is six T34 tanks... maybe a good core to build on? I was thinking of an OT-34 to take care of my flamethrower requirement.. it costs 250 points and 1175 rarity. I suspect Elvis will purchase dismounted flamethrower(s) and think the armored variety would be fun. If I add two rifle companies to that with Battalion mortar and HMG support (6 82mm mortars, 6 Maxim HMG teams) my total goes to 3589 with 1649 rarity... so very close to my 3500 point limit. I could then play with the various settings to get beneath the 3500 point cap. I did not account for supply trucks so will have to sacrifice something to get at least four.. they are cheap though, from 32-35 points so I should be able to make room. Thoughts? Tweaks? Yeah forget off-map artillery, grab a few SU-122's or SU-152's and blast away! :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yeah forget off-map artillery, grab a few SU-122's or SU-152's and blast away! :cool: Those are 270-280 points each.. what would you sacrifice in my above list for a few of those? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am seeing a common theme with your requests.. a lot of infantry,, much of it SMG... that we can do for sure. Armor, yes the Russian tank platoon has 3 tanks.. I need to explore the point costs of tank riders and their mounts... maybe I can afford more than one platoon? Indirect artillery. can I ask why you guys, almost all of you, would like of map artillery? My philosophy is, even though I do a lot of area fire, is that I hate wasting firepower.. and indirect artillery takes so long to come in that it can be wasted if it doesn't arrive in sync with the attack. However, I had a very successful artillery barrage in my AAR with ND (CMFI BETA AAR).. so maybe. But I prefer on map assets.. either SP guns or mortars. Yes I am thinking of bringing several trucks for resupply. Aircraft - I was thinking of perhaps buying two strafing IL2s, problem is they bring a big hit to the rarirty cost.. 79 to purchase, 257 rarity... But rarity might not be an issue for me: Tankodesantniki Company - 3 platoons, with two platoons of T-34/76 costs: 1711 points and 0 rarity. That is six T34 tanks... maybe a good core to build on? I was thinking of an OT-34 to take care of my flamethrower requirement.. it costs 250 points and 1175 rarity. I suspect Elvis will purchase dismounted flamethrower(s) and think the armored variety would be fun. If I add two rifle companies to that with Battalion mortar and HMG support (6 82mm mortars, 6 Maxim HMG teams) my total goes to 3589 with 1649 rarity... so very close to my 3500 point limit. I could then play with the various settings to get beneath the 3500 point cap. I did not account for supply trucks so will have to sacrifice something to get at least four.. they are cheap though, from 32-35 points so I should be able to make room. Thoughts? Tweaks? Good mix! Off map artillery: Soviet use on the attack would've been pre-planned. Coordinating once the troops cross the start will take too long. You have been given sufficient forces to crush resistance. Do not rely upon artillery to do what your men should be capable of. There was a reason why the Soviets had the big-bore HE chuckers on armored chassis. If you've got room, something in that vein would be nice. I'd get rid of the mortars to make room for a pair of SU's of some variety. As to tactics? Really? Don't dance about: ATTACK! This should be fun. Ken P.S. That map looks made for you: Looooong edges, you edge-hugging gamey bastiche! <-- (I'm only jealous because I wish I could've done it in our game.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Those are 270-280 points each.. what would you sacrifice in my above list for a few of those? Hmmm, maybe sacrifice a platoon of T-34's and maybe get rid of the battalion Mortars/HMG's? The assault guns can definitely replace any off map/indirect arty support, at least in a point situation such as this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakEasy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am a huge fan of the katyusha, so I will be a very happy camper if some rocket artillery makes an appearance at any point in this battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Hmmm, maybe sacrifice a platoon of T-34's and maybe get rid of the battalion Mortars/HMG's? The assault guns can definitely replace any off map/indirect arty support, at least in a point situation such as this. Yeah it'd be at the cost of one tank platoon.. I could purchase one SU-152 and one SU-122 if I cut three T-34s. Might be a good exchange. Sorry Speakeasy, I am not a fan of rocket artillery 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Yeah it'd be at the cost of one tank platoon.. I could purchase one SU-152 and one SU-122 if I cut three T-34s. Might be a good exchange. Sorry Speakeasy, I am not a fan of rocket artillery Yeah that sounds pretty good, in your (Original) list it doesn't look like you have any kitty killers so they could fill that role as well... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakEasy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 That's quite alright, Bill. Regardless of the absence of a pre-planned rocket barrage I am VERY excited about this game as well as this AAR. Besides, I can always just get the game myself and play with the katyusha. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr_oberst Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Why the request for all that arty? Because you're playing as the Russians! Geez, you make it sound like you want to win or something... we sideliners just want to see lots of big 'splody things -- although I do like your idea for the flamethrower AFV. That could be quite a nasty surprise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurrp Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think some big SP guns are necessary, maybe 2x SU-122s? That should give you a pretty good direct fire capability, which might be nice in the BUA or if Elvis has some field defenses. I think a single T-34 platoon with desantniks should fill out your armor. As cool as SMG companies are, if this is anything like BfN then you might run out of ammo quickly. Perhaps 1x SMG company, 1x Rifle company, and a platoon of engineers could give you a pretty well rounded infantry force. I'd also suggest multiple man-pack Flamethrowers dispersed among your infantry instead of a flamethrower tank. Finally, I'd spend as little on an aircraft as possible. Maybe it will get lucky, but spending valuable points in something that could get shot down immediately or accidentally strafe your own troops seems risky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurrp Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 And also, I'd get four to six trucks for transport and resupply purposes. Forgot to mention that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I am a huge fan of the katyusha, so I will be a very happy camper if some rocket artillery makes an appearance at any point in this battle. I'm with you, buddy. But I think this is shaping up to be somewhat of a hasty attack put together on the fly by forces in pursuit after the breakthrough battle coming on a German ad hoc blocking force. Much as I love rocket artillery (and I love rocket artillery), I don't think it has any place in this scenario quite aside from Bil's objections to it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migo441 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I was thinking of an OT-34 to take care of my flamethrower requirement.. it costs 250 points and 1175 rarity. Would be very cool to see the OT-34. And sounds good to sacrifice a platoon of T-34s in order to afford the SU-122 / SU-152 combo. Go big or go home. OK to skip the off board arty and I'd say just spend the bare minimum points on aircraft. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lille Fiskerby Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Always looking forward to your AAR, Bil Hardenberger. What about morale and experience of your troops ? I always select : Regular, experience +1 (some armoured units 0) and morale +1, and it will be interesting to se difference to US and British units. LF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 That is a gorgeous map, nice choice, and thanks to GeorgeMC. Bil, which Soviet units have the capability of calling in artillery support? I saw it mentioned that some Soviet squads have HQ's imbedded in them (can act as HQ's). Will you need to purchase Forward Observer's? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 This is all shaping up brilliantly. Glad to hear you're probably taking a flame-tank - do the Germans get any variety in their orbat ? I don't see anything listed, but am not 100% grog-ish on nomenclature of such beasts. IIRC they used PzII's and III's - are they still around in this time-frame ? Would like to see you buy at least one "ammo dump" since it's a new feature too Personally I'd get SU122's and not SU152's - but again - do the SU122's have AT capability ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karelian Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Too bad that there won't be any light tanks around - they could spearhead the attack with infantry and recon AT positions for assault guns to knock out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You could stick with the organic on-board mortars and just use them direct fire. Cheaper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeakEasy Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Baneman, I don't believe that the SU's or ISU's used AP shells. IIRC they destroyed German armor using their massive HE shells. Given that, I presume that all the SU's and ISU's have AT capabilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 The SU tanks have HEAT rounds. But I don't think they carry very many. Okay I will purchase a couple of those big gunned tanks instead of a platoon of T34s. I'm open to off map artillery but not too excited about it to be honest. Yes I would then need to buy an FO as well. I don't think every Russian HQ can call in artillery. Well we'll see how big the outcry is for arty, but of course I have veto power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Oh, as far as unit quality goes I usually just get whatever the defaults are and then tweak the values up and down to get the most of of the points available. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Baneman, I don't believe that the SU's or ISU's used AP shells. IIRC they destroyed German armor using their massive HE shells. Given that, I presume that all the SU's and ISU's have AT capabilities. ISU-122s most definitely had and used AP shells; the ISU-122 carries the same long barrel, high velocity 122mm gun as the IS-2 tank. The ISU-152 also carries some AP rounds -- the 152mm howitzer gun velocity isn't as high but the sheer mass of the round makes up for it. They're both more than powerful enough crack open a heavy cat, though the low rate of fire (especially on the ISU-152) makes them less than ideal as a tank hunters. The SU-122 has a short-barreled 122mm howitzer so it's not so great for kinetic AP rounds. They do, however, carry a limited supply of HEAT rounds, which are very effective if you get a hit; much like the other Soviet assault guns, it's scoring a hit before the SU-122 itself gets penetrated that tends to be the challenge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Historically, 76mm and 120mm mortars for on call fire, nothing greater if you are talking about dedicated batteries. Can you buy some BA-64/White Scout cars or are your recce elements going to be the T-34's? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Vark, I was thinking my recon elements would be infantry due to the close terrain. Plus they are better at spotting. I learned a valuable lesson in my game with Ken when my armor was shooting in the dark because I couldn't spot his infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I keel you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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