Ivanov Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Mate, give it a rest, will ya. Did you miss the part where I agreed with you that the NM value comparison is a good tool for the primary tiebreaker? As for the casualty ratios, I don't remember, did we have a "lost MPPs" by way of casualties chart? Because each strength point lost counts, not just "finished off" detachment, correct? I think we could only compare the number of the destroyed units - I don't see a way and need to compare all the MMPs lost. Is there such a chart that sumarizes all the MMPs lost? Let's not complicate too much. The MMPs lost during each combat have a effect influence on the NM loss. Anyway I doubt the both players will often end up with the same NM procentage at the end of the last turn. So if the NM will be a decisive tiebreaker, then there will be rarely a need to count the casuaties. I repeat - the losses influence the NM drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabro Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Well, it's the secondary tiebreaker anyway. Not much importance. I have a habit of not going out of my way to finish off units in supply if it'd cost me. In a war of attrition where neither side is going to have a breakthrough in the near future, it doesn't matter to me that much, especially since I learned destroyed but supplied units not only rebuild at half price, but also half the time.(unless I am ignorant of some side effects of complete unit destruction, like NM. I thought NM was based on strength points lost) . So I'm glad it's not the primary tiebreaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabro Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Comerade - I didn't miss the part where you agreed with me, but I simply still don't agree with your proposal ( please don't miss that part ). Anyway let's send the proposals to the Kommandand and see with what he will come up with. Oh, I didn't address this - what exactly is my current "proposal" that you don't agree with? What am I supposed to send to Kommandant? I already agreed with NM. What relevance is your disagreement with my former suggestion if I already agreed to your suggestion that you need to keep "disagreeing" with it? I think you're used to people being obstinate and childish on the Internet, and I for one don't blame you for that. Sorry to disappoint you if you wanted a "revanche". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 I think we could only compare the number of the destroyed units - I don't see a way and need to compare all the MMPs lost. Is there such a chart that sumarizes all the MMPs lost? Hi Ivanov Yes, there is. It is in the Charts under MPPs, because this has figures on MPPs collected, MPPs spent, and on the MPP value of units lost. So, it could be possible for this, maybe combined with National Morale figures at the end of the game, to be used for comparison purposes. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Oh, I didn't address this - what exactly is my current "proposal" that you don't agree with? What am I supposed to send to Kommandant? I already agreed with NM. What relevance is your disagreement with my former suggestion if I already agreed to your suggestion that you need to keep "disagreeing" with it? I think you're used to people being obstinate and childish on the Internet, and I for one don't blame you for that. Sorry to disappoint you if you wanted a "revanche". I just want to say that sometimes I have troubles in understanding the full sense of your posts ( maybe I'm too dumb, maybe your style is not clear enought ) and in this case, I thought you agreed with the NM proposal as the tiebreraker but still wanted to take into account the industrial output. I personaly dread all those "online wars" between the people who are keen to participate in them, just because "the net" allows them to stay anonymus. But I have to admit that your style sometimes seems to me a bit rude and insensitive and due to that I find it slightly annoying. But it's all good. Just leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hi Ivanov Yes, there is. It is in the Charts under MPPs, because this has figures on MPPs collected, MPPs spent, and on the MPP value of units lost. So, it could be possible for this, maybe combined with National Morale figures at the end of the game, to be used for comparison purposes. Bill Yes - I have forgotten about this chart. Still, if the NM should be decisive, then I think very rarely the two players will end up with exactly the same NM procentage by the end of the last turn. I have already sent an e-mail, with a scoring system proposal, to the Kommandant and let's wait and see what he will come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabro Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I personaly dread all those "online wars" between the people who are keen to participate in them, just because "the net" allows them to stay anonymus. But I have to admit that your style sometimes seems to me a bit rude and insensitive and due to that I find it slightly annoying. But it's all good. Just leave it. It's good that we have an understanding. I can be insensitive, this is true - or at the very least I can come across like that, as I am quite blunt! But the older I get, the more I agree with you - I just want to get out of Internet arguments that go on and on and on...very rare to actually find an accord, instead people just get more entrenched about their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapare Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I just want to say that NM is not a 'perfect' way to decide winner. Toward the end of the game the player of the winning side can easily stale to make his NM go up as he holds more ground then his enemy. This would effectively raise his NM. (And we are talking large % numbers here, so much as 2% per turn) To be honest I have not kept tab on this topic for way to long and don't know exactly what you guys plan to use the NM thing for, just wanted to point out the possibility to abuse the NM counter by stalling an almost won game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I just want to say that NM is not a 'perfect' way to decide winner. Toward the end of the game the player of the winning side can easily stale to make his NM go up as he holds more ground then his enemy. This would effectively raise his NM. (And we are talking large % numbers here, so much as 2% per turn) I don't think that merely holding the ground could be ever a game winning tactics. There are other and more important factors than occupation of the enemy teritorry. In my opinion, the casualties are the single most important factor affecting the NM, so at the end the tactical skill on the battlefield will always be decisive. The NM effect of the occupied cities/resources is between 15 to 25 NM points per turn, while the loss of a single infantry corps is worth all it's MMP cost converted into NM points. In my recent Fate Of Nations test game as CP, I was practically expulsed form all the occupied French teritorry, yet mostly due to the casualties, the German and French NM were practically equal and I was expecting a major boost after the fall of Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapare Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think that merely holding the ground could be ever a game winning tactics. There are other and more important factors than occupation of the enemy teritorry. In my opinion, the casualties are the single most important factor affecting the NM, so at the end the tactical skill on the battlefield will always be decisive. The NM effect of the occupied cities/resources is between 15 to 25 NM points per turn, while the loss of a single infantry corps is worth all it's MMP cost converted into NM points. In my recent Fate Of Nations test game as CP, I was practically expulsed form all the occupied French teritorry, yet mostly due to the casualties, the German and French NM were practically equal and I was expecting a major boost after the fall of Russia. I lost all of France in a Triple Alliance game against AI before, then beat the Ottoman's and all of their original land went to Russia. Russia was gaining some 1 or 2 NM each turn while Germany was gaining some 1 or maybe 2 NM too. This was sometime at 1916 and my match ended up going to 1921 because NM was just not kill able. Capitals are worth 100NM each turn. I am just saying that it is possible to greatly increase your NM by stalling in some cases. I still don't know what you guys are planing to use the NM for at any rate. How is there ever going to be a tie?(unless you plan to end the game at 1918. But I see no reason not to give it the extra 5 years to play out.) All of these examples are based on the 1914-1918 maps mind you, never played the smaller campaigns before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 How is there ever going to be a tie?(unless you plan to end the game at 1918. But I see no reason not to give it the extra 5 years to play out.) There may be a tie, if both players achieve the same type of victory in the mirror match. For example both score a minor vicory as Entente in the Fate Of Nations campaign. The comparison of NM, between the winners of each game of the mirror, seems to be a fair and simple solution in case of the tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ok people, 1.04 is out, I will set the players that will go to the playoffs and their respective foes. I will send the general email to alert every one about it. Notes: The first place of every league will get a medal for the forum account. All the games in the playoffs will be played with 1.04. Any questions, please ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I am just saying that it is possible to greatly increase your NM by stalling in some cases. I still don't know what you guys are planing to use the NM for at any rate. How is there ever going to be a tie?(unless you plan to end the game at 1918. But I see no reason not to give it the extra 5 years to play out.) All of these examples are based on the 1914-1918 maps mind you, never played the smaller campaigns before. I can see what you mean, but I would imagine that if one player just tries to hold what they have, then in the long run unless their conquests pretty much equal their opponent's, one side or the other will have to attempt to drive their opponent back in order to avoid losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ok people i sent an email requesting the complet score of those who have NOT yet send the score. Plaese answer the email, not here. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacestick Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Just curious, had the tourny died a slow death or are we getting underway again some time in the near future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Just curious, had the tourny died a slow death or are we getting underway again some time in the near future? not dead, only facing the prob of having ony one, busy, referee The playoffs will start soon, i promisse! :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Generals, i've sent an email to you all, the playoffs have started, all the rules and details are in the email, if you have any questions, please, ask it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon99 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi, presumably it is somewhere and I'm stupid to find it. But where are the e-mail addresses for the next opponent?:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi, presumably it is somewhere and I'm stupid to find it. But where are the e-mail addresses for the next opponent?:confused: OMG!!! No you are no fool, i forgot to put the emails ¬¬, no prob, as there has been some players that can't play in the next fase, so i will send a new email with all the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapare Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I had a question(mainly caused by my misplacing of an email) Till when do we have to finish our whole(mirrored included) match?(Atm I am playing over email with about one turn a day, but I fear that it might be to slow) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I had a question(mainly caused by my misplacing of an email) Till when do we have to finish our whole(mirrored included) match?(Atm I am playing over email with about one turn a day, but I fear that it might be to slow) The deal is 60 days until the dead line, so you have until 15/04 to end the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapare Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I wanted to ask if it was possible to get another copy of the current game rooster(just to see how many people are still in play and how many matches one would need to play(without losing) till the tournamentis over? Just asking out of curosity.(My current matchup is over as my enemy had to forfeit due to operation, or so I was told. Did he ever contact you?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I wanted to ask if it was possible to get another copy of the current game rooster(just to see how many people are still in play and how many matches one would need to play(without losing) till the tournamentis over? Just asking out of curosity.(My current matchup is over as my enemy had to forfeit due to operation, or so I was told. Did he ever contact you?) Yeah he told me, you a luck, or unlucky guy spare, wining by walk over in the leagues and now in the playoffs. There are 16 players now, there will be another fase with 8 players, the semi finals with 4 players and the finals with 2 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapare Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I noticed that too. In this case I would call on unlucky rather then lucky(I would like to say that I would have won both matches with maybe even major victory anyway. That made the games quite fun actully.) Don't think I can't play just becuase people forfeit all the time.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I noticed that too. In this case I would call on unlucky rather then lucky(I would like to say that I would have won both matches with maybe even major victory anyway. That made the games quite fun actully.) Don't think I can't play just becuase people forfeit all the time.. lol I know the felling, make your self sure, next fase your opponent will be there.... unless you are eliminating them somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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