Oddball_E8 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I was just browsing through the german tanks available and it struck me that there were no panzer 3 or panzer 2 versions available at all... ive heard of pz3 and pz2 being used around the battles of normandy... ive even heard of captured french tanks being used. but all i see on the german side are pz4, pz5 and pz6 (and a marder 3) whats with the lack of panzer models? did they just not have time to model them in the game? will they be added later? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengJiao Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I was just browsing through the german tanks available and it struck me that there were no panzer 3 or panzer 2 versions available at all... ive heard of pz3 and pz2 being used around the battles of normandy... ive even heard of captured french tanks being used. but all i see on the german side are pz4, pz5 and pz6 (and a marder 3) whats with the lack of panzer models? did they just not have time to model them in the game? will they be added later? They had to start somewhere and I guess they didn't want to start by modelling the strange and rare and ineffective. It seems like if you can get Shermans and Panthers and M10s and STGIIIs right, you have a good foundation and standard range of outcomes from which to expand your stuff later. there is a whole slew of German Halftrack types. That's cool. And plenty of armored cars. And trucks and jeeps. A lot of stuff really. And it all interacts convincingly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 +2 to Mengjiao. How they did it with CMSF was to keep adding small additional vehicles with each new module. Little extras which were included in the new module which of course introduced new TO&Es. It is not a sure thing but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some of those "out of way" vehicles and equipment with each new module. By the time the fourth module for CMBN series is here, we'll have a well rounded toybox. Again...IMHO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 French tanks are planned for last module. The number of Pz II and Pz III are nil for Normandy. BF didn’t plan vehicles who were not or very few present in Normandy. They will come in other games like east front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I looked it up once in the hopes of building a case for the inclusion of the PzIII and the numbers aren't really there to make the case. There weren't a lot of PzIIIs in Normandy and they consisted of a rather surprising number of variants. From IIIE all the way to IIIN iirc. Probably due to their use in training units or HQs. Which is probablyalso the only place you'll find the PzIIs, if any. French tanks are probably the most interesting because while there weren't many of those either, those modest numbers are spread over just a few different vehicle types. Alas the problem there is that these are completely different from each other and would be a pain to model all of them. Given their marginal combat track record, maybe not the best use of BFC's time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The 50mm-armed version was entirely obsolete, PzIII with the short 75mm gun survived to war's end and was actually well liked by its crews for its reliability. Its utiility (and life expectancy) would be roughly equivalent to on-map M8 HMCs. I can't say I've seen any Normandy invasion photos of them, they are around during bulge battles and after, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Dredged from the net Pumas ,100 [+1] built and the majority fought in Normandy. The Sd Kfz 234/2 would see action in Normandy in three Panzer divisions. 2. Panzerdivision and Panzer Lehr Panzerdivision were both fully equipped with the “Puma” having a compliment of 26 vehicles. The 2. Panzerdivision’s along with the Panzer Lehr division’s “Pumas” can be represented with the Panzer Lehr Panzerspähkompanie Intelligence Briefing PDF. First SS Panzer “Liebstandarte Adolf Hitler” also had a number of Puma armoured cars but did not posses a full compliment of them http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=519 ******************************************* There were few PzKpfw III in Normandy. -3 Ausf L or M with 50 cm gun in HQ Co/Pz.Rgt.16 -3 in HQ Co/II/Pz.Rgt.16 -3 in HQ Co/Pz.Rgt.22 -1 in I/pz.Rgt.22 -1 in HQ Co/I/SS-Pz.Rgt.9 -1 in 2./Pz.Ersatz und Ausbildungs Abt.100 Also command,recovery and artillery observation versions were in use. ******************************************* Virtually all sites agree there were no PZIIs in Normandy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddball_E8 Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 well it seems there were far fewer PzIII and PzII at normandy than i was lead to believe... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narses Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 well it seems there were far fewer PzIII and PzII at normandy than i was lead to believe... Niklas Zetterling in Normandy 44, pg 64, gives a total of 30 in "the West" not necessarily Normandy and Jentz in Panzer Truppen, Vol II, pg 177 gives 39. Zetterling has an interesting observation saying since the panzer was considered obsolescent the units may not have reported it as it was used mostly for HQ and admin functions as it had little combat value but could provide mobility and armor protection to various staff officers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaws Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 They were used as forward observation tanks for Arty units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The only place I can envision the Pz II in 1944 is maybe doing anti-partisan duty in the Balkans (or similar backwater) or alternately having its turret dug in as a pillbox on some defensive line...including the Atlantic Wall. Pz II Luchs may be the only exception and I don't think there were many of them in Normandy since most saw service in the East. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Marlow Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Maybe we will see PzIIIs in the Market Garden module. I believe there were some of them in an armor training unit sent against the paras in Arnhem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Ivan Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I am missing Renaults since I was just reading an account of the 82nd Airborne facing 3 Renaults on D-Day. Maybe they were the only Renaults in Normandy? Also interesting was that the Renault tanks took 3 or 4 bazooka hits to knock out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 82nd Airborne facing 3 Renaults on D-Day. Maybe they were the only Renaults in Normandy? There were, IIRC, two battalions of mixed French tanks in the Cotentin. Both were, again IIRC, training battalions, albeit with be-prepared-to tasks involving combat. Both were essentially destroyed within days of the landings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Pz II Luchs may be the only exception and I don't think there were many of them in Normandy since most saw service in the East. I'd like to see this one, there is just as much rationale for including this as there is for including the Puma imo. I would also note that there was enough to justify the inclusion of H39s and PzII L in CMBO. I'd rather see R35's though. Or both. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Hoolaman, my information is that virtually all the Puma's were sent West and many saw action in Normandy whereas most of the Luchs were in the East - few in Normandy. Production numbers for each were less than 200, more like half that. Supposedly the 116 Pz Div was the only user in the West. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Of course you are right, I'm aware of their rarity too. Still, they were there and are cool. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapHappy Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yep, the final incarnation of the PzII was epitomized in the luchs (lynx) model and was fairly drastically changed from it's original counterpart. It was used to make up part of the inventory of some of the reconnaissance units. Don't know which theater they were primarily used in (East or West). Actually it would probably be fairly effective as a purely anti-infantry vehicle in-game, so it would be nice to have it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Niklas Zetterling in Normandy 44, pg 64, gives a total of 30 in "the West" not necessarily Normandy and Jentz in Panzer Truppen, Vol II, pg 177 gives 39. Thereof 6 with II./Pz.Rgt. 15 from 11. Panzerdivision. So with the 12 dieseltaylor mentions we would be looking for 12 somewhere else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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