Is there a road move version of CMBN?

[MOSwas71331]

I complained repeatedly about CMBO-CMBB-CMAK not allowing me to direct a vehicle to follow a road. So when I plot a road move for a US tank in the CMBN demo, I place a waypoint for each turn the tank must make to follow the road. I make sure the lines connecting the points stay on the road, and I replot waypoints when connecting lines go cross-country. After all that effort, when the turn starts the tank's actual movement can become disjointed moves and turns. (If a state trooper saw a vehicle behave that way, he'd insist on a blood alcohol test and cite the driver.)

When I watch Chris "tyrspawn" Krause's YouTube recorded AAR of Closing the Pocket, he has a Panther which has been hit repeatedly which he wants to move along a trail in the woods shielded from US observation by high ground. He places waypoints vaguely along the trail with some of the lines connecting them going cross-country and lets the Panther go. When Krause does it, his Panther unerringly follows the desired trail and, when it gets near the end of that path, it fires on US targets.

I understand there's no way (in the absence of road movement commands) for the AI to know when you want a vehicle to follow a road and when you really want it to go cross-country. So why does the AI know Krause wants his Panther to follow the trail rather than the cross-country path, when it can't tell that I want my Sherman to follow a road when I've carefully plotted its movement to keep it on the road? Does Krause have a version of CMBN with road movement commands?

[YankeeDog]

Yep; you have a special "nerfed" copy of CMBN, made just for you. BFC enjoys reading your frustrations posted here on the forum. They make Steve laugh.

...

Vehicles will tend to try to find "fastest path" between two waypoints, and especially on faster movement orders, they may deviate somewhat from the exact straight-line vector between two waypoints in order to find to better traveling ground (and especially roads). But it's "fuzzy logic" and sometimes difficult to determine exactly how a vehicle will execute a given movement order. So if the exact route is important to you, it's often better to use more waypoints.

[phil stanbridge]

I'm experiencing similar problems, but to be honest it's not any worse than it was in CMAK. What compounds the problem now of course is the bocage and the narrow lanes making tank movement very difficult indeed. What I have found is that plotting each individual waypoint isn't necessarily the best way to go about it - as the AI knows what it can and can't cross as a matter of cause. It's difficult for the human to navigate around the terrain - well it is for me, I don't know really if something is passable or not. But the AI does, so in theory it's best to let the AI take over at this point. However that said, the AI still tries to take the most direct route, which can mean trudging over hedges/fences and obstacles, thus damaging the tracks, so there is a comprimise required. It's also easier in R/T than it is in WEGO as you can make small adjustments much quicker.

And yeah, I've got the *special* copy.

[Frankster65]

Hell...I'm laughing right now too.

[stikkypixie]

You can make it slightly easier for the AI by using slower movement commands such as SLOW or MOVE in tight corners rather than QUICK or FAST.

[MengJiao]

I'm experiencing similar problems, but to be honest it's not any worse than it was in CMAK. What compounds the problem now of course is the bocage and the narrow lanes making tank movement very difficult indeed. What I have found is that plotting each individual waypoint isn't necessarily the best way to go about it - as the AI knows what it can and can't cross as a matter of cause. It's difficult for the human to navigate around the terrain - well it is for me, I don't know really if something is passable or not. But the AI does, so in theory it's best to let the AI take over at this point. However that said, the AI still tries to take the most direct route, which can mean trudging over hedges/fences and obstacles, thus damaging the tracks, so there is a comprimise required. It's also easier in R/T than it is in WEGO as you can make small adjustments much quicker.

And yeah, I've got the *special* copy.

I agree. I play in RT and I just plot a move say 800 meters away and eventually vehicles find a way there. Sometimes the route is surprising and sometimes I stop them and send them somewhere else (safer usually) to think about the errors of their ways.

Lately I've started thinking ahead in terms of where there might be congestion and then stopping say tank platoons short of where they might need to change their timing or go individually to get through.

[Pvt. Ryan]

When you plot way points on a road you don't want to place one at every turn. Place them so they cut across turns and the vehicle will smoothly negotiate the turns. You definitely don't want to make right angle turns. If you need to make a sharp turn place one way point a little before the turn and a little after so that the sharp turn is broken down into two smoother turns.

[Rayak47]

What drives me nuts is trying to conduct a move in column or out of a column when you first get reenforcements. Even with setting start delays for the vehicles down the line, I' still get them driving into each other and driving all over the place to get around another vehicle, etc. I guess it's probably too hard to make an AI know when it should be road marching, but man, it's time consuming to choreograph one to work properly!

[womble]

I get pretty good results using lots of shallowly angled waypoints. Just draw round the racing line of a corner, clicking away. Sometimes it's tricky getting the view right and you have to redo a few, but it's a broad brush you need, so it doesn't take as long as some redos.

[winkelried]

i see a lot of progress since CMx1. much easier to give orders (although there is still some strange behaviour) and i slowly get used to it. today i was extremely pleased by an infantry platoon. I gave a "move" order to the whole platoon to move from one end to the next of an L shaped road: and the whole platoon marched along the road AND used the side with the trees providing some camouflage (I assume).

[xian]

For some reason I read this thread as 'Is there a Road Movie of CMBN?'

[Michael Emrys]

For some reason I read this thread as 'Is there a Road Movie of CMBN?'

You mean like with Bing Crosby, Bob Hope, and Dorothy Lamour? I don't think they are in this one, but you never know.

Michael

[JonS]

You can make it slightly easier for the AI by using slower movement commands such as SLOW or MOVE in tight corners rather than QUICK or FAST.

Yep. Moving vehicles have momentum, and fast moving vehicles have more momentum. If you FAST a vehicle upto a corner, then give it another FAST at right angles off in a new direction it will overrun the plotted waypoint. In an open field you probably won't even notice this happening. But in a tightly restricted road or village you definately will notice, and probably blame the game.

[gunnergoz]

I managed to get the American forces all the way across the Huzzar! map using roads and trails, in column and without traffic jams by making sure that they were spaced out to start (each succeeding vehicle gets a 5 sec delay, cumulative to the preceding one's delay) and making them slow down for turns as noted above. I place vehicles that need to go fast at the very head (recon jeeps for instance) and the others may have to be staggered over two turns (I play WEGO on Veteran level BTW). The things that make you have to hold up the column (like enemy sighted, etc) are where you have to react immediately to re-plot the remaining vehicles so they don't back up and your column ends up all herding around trying to find AI-designed alternative routes.

I try to keep at least 2-4 vehicle length separation between vehicles in the column. Most of my columns move at Normal and Slow during turns, although I will use Hunt for those at the head of the column to ensure they don't proceed further into a potential ambush.