14 Pak/352 Division

[Tactical Wargamer]

Ok just working on a little operational game using the Battle of Normany.

Came across the unit 14 Pak/352.

Curious it is rated a battlion. How many antitank guns would it have you think and of what type? Would they be 50mm or 75 mm or various? Would they rate any 88's?

Thanks!

[Sgt Joch]

apparently the 352nd had an attached Flak regiment with 60x20mm guns and 48x88mm guns.

see here (reference is at middle of page 100):

http://books.google.ca/books?id=RDYiS6TzZMQC&pg=PA73&lpg=PA73&dq=balkoski+beyond+bridgehead&source=bl&ots=AnSuwSFSzZ&sig=qMmXiJV1-w-ECYIewMX_RCXRIxQ&hl=en&ei=0-LnTeC3BePj0QGU0rz8Cg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I presume its the same unit.

[Schrullenhaft]

The 14.kompanies (PaK) in the 352 Infanterie division seemed to have had 3 x PaK 40/75mm, if this reference is to be believed.

[RockinHarry]

Ok just working on a little operational game using the Battle of Normany.

Came across the unit 14 Pak/352.

Curious it is rated a battlion. How many antitank guns would it have you think and of what type? Would they be 50mm or 75 mm or various? Would they rate any 88's?

Thanks!

I´d assume "14 Pak" to be a german infantry regiments 14th company = the organic AT company, normally comprising of 12 AT guns. Could be anything from 50mm to 75mm and 76mm (russian), or even "foreign" stuff (french, czech...).

[Pete Wenman]

I found a OOB for the 352nd on the web some 10 yrs ago. I've no idea how correct it is, but I've never found anything better.

It quoted the 352 Pz Jager Abt as having

10 StuG III

14 Marder II & III

9 towed 37mm Flak

This site shows pretty much the same, but with the Flak being SP FlaKPz 38

http://wwiihistorycenter.org/german/352history.html#PANZERJ%C4GER

Hope this helps

P

[RockinHarry]

The 14.kompanies (PaK) in the 352 Infanterie division seemed to have had 3 x PaK 40/75mm, if this reference is to be believed.

You were posting, while I was yet typing.

I´d believe the figures are true, as the "static" divisions were mostly below official AT strength and lacking transports. Also the divisional AT battalion is comprised of mobile AT (Marders and Stugs) to rather provide sorts of an armored "reaction force".

[Tactical Wargamer]

Wow you guys are good!! Thanks.

Looks like approx 9 75 mm AT guns.

Thanks so much

[Tactical Wargamer]

OK since I have you pros here. What are Fusiliers? I take it light infantry. What would the 352 and 716 th infantry divsions be? There seems to be very little AT capability with Fusiliers.....

[Sgt Joch]

OK since I have you pros here. What are Fusiliers? I take it light infantry. What would the 352 and 716 th infantry divsions be? There seems to be very little AT capability with Fusiliers.....

The 716th was a "static" infantry division guarding the US sector. It had no inherent transport capability, hence the static designation. It was supposedly composed on 2nd rate troops.

The 352nd was a regular infantry division which was deployed in Normandy sometime before D-Day, although it was missed by Allied intelligence.

Both were short of equipment which was one of reasons why the Flak regiment I mentioned above had been added to the 352nd to add AA/AT capability.

[JonS]

"14 Pak/352" is non-sensical. Best bet is that it refers to - as stated above - the "14th Company (Anti Tank)" that was present in each of the three infantry regiments of 352 Inf Div. Each company contained - again as stated above - 3 x 7.5cm PaK 40. But the three companys together did not form a battalion of nine guns. The companys belong to the regiments, not to a higher level 'pak bn'.

The definition of fusilier is a little fluid. In CMBN Editor terms the difference between fusillier and grenadier seems to be that grenadiers have rifle grenades, while fusilliers do not. On the other hand, fusillier bns in the German Army in Normandy 1944 were usually (I don't want to say always) the divisional reconnaissance battalion of infantry divisions. Their organisation was a little 'lighter' than the usual grenadier bns in the gren regts, and often one of the fusillier companies would be bicycle mounted in a feeble nod towards their nominal role as mobile recconaissance troops. Otherwise they were foot mobile, like the rest of the infantry component of the inf divs.

After a little rummaging around I came across this:

352. Inf.-Div. (bew) (7 K.V.A.-H2-K.V.A. Bayeux)

Gefechtsstand – northeast of St. Lô (Littry)

Kdr: 			Generalmajor Dietrich Kraiss

Ia:			Oberstleutnant i.G. Fritz Ziegelmann

Ib:			Major i.G. Weller

Ic:			Oberleutnant Meyer-Estner

IIa:			Major Paul Block

Inf.-Div.-Nachr.-Abtl. 352 

Gefechtsstand – Castillon (southwest of Bayeux) 

		Nachschub-Btl. 352

Verwaltungs-Btl. 352

Sanitäts.-Btl. 352

Gefechtsstand  – Mestry 

	Veterinär-Kp. 352

	Feldpost 352

Gren.-Regt. 914 

Gefechtsstand – Neuilly-la-Forêt

Kdr: 		Oberstleutnant Ernst Heyna

	I. Btl. 

Gefechtsstand – Osmanville

1.-4. Kp.

II. Btl. 

Gefechtsstand – Catz 

5.-8. Kp.

			13. (IG) Kp. (six 7.5cm le.IG and two 15cm s.IG)

			14. (Pz.Jg.) Kp. (three 7.5cm s.Pak)

	Gren.-Regt. 915 	

Gefechtsstand – St-Paul-du-Vernay 

Kdr: 		Oberstleutnant Karl Meyer

I. Btl. 

Gefechtsstand – Juaye, south of Bayeux 

1.-4. Kp.

			II. Btl. 

		Gefechtsstand – Lantheuil (9 kilometers east of Bayeux) 

		5.-8. Kp.

			13. (IG) Kp. (six 7.5cm le.IG and two 15cm s.IG)

		14. (Pz.Jg.) Kp. (three 7.5cm s.Pak)

Gren.-Regt. 916 

Gefechtsstand – Trévieres

Kdr: 		Oberst Ernst Goth

		I. Btl. 

Gefechtsstand – Ryes 

1.-4. Kp.

			2 Kpn. – on the coast from Arromanches to le Hamel

			2 Kpn. – in reserve west of Meuvaines

		II. Btl. (division reserve)

Gefechtsstand – Formigny 

Kdr.:	Hauptmann Grimme

			5. Kp. – St-Laurent-sur-Mer

			6. Kp. – Le Buissonet (Formigny)

			7. Kp. – Surrain 

			8. Kp. – Colleville-sur-Mer

			13. (IG) Kp. (two 7.5cm le.IG and two 15cm s.IG)

		14. (Pz.Jg.) Kp. (three 7.5cm s.Pak)

Art.-Regt. 352 

Gefechtsstand – Moulagny(?) 

Kdr.:		Oberst Kurt-Wilhelm Ocker

		I. Abtl.

Gefechtsstand – Château d’Etréham

Kdr:	Major Werner Pluskat

1. Bttr. – Houtteville (between Surrain and Etreham) (four 10.5cm 

le.FH) – Oberleutnant Bernhard Frerking

			2. Bttr. – Hill 29 and Hill 61 (near Montigny, two 10.5cm l.F.H. in each 

position)

			3. Bttr. – south of the Coleville-St. Laurent road, northeast of Formigny 

(four 10.5cm le.FH) – Hauptmann Wilkening

		II. Abtl. 

Gefechtsstand – St. Clément

4.-6. Bttr. (four 10.5cm le.FH each)

		III. Abtl. 

Gefechtsstand – La Rosière (north of Bayeux)

7. Bttr. – Pierre Solain (four 10.5cm le.FH)

8. Bttr. – Sommervieu (la Tringale) (four 10.5cm le.FH)

			9. Bttr. – Magny-en-Bessin (near Vaux-sur-Aure) (four 10.5cm le.FH)

		IV. Abtl. 

Gefechtsstand – Asnières en Bessin

10.-12. Bttr. (four 15cm s.FH each)

			Bttr. – Longueville 

	Füs.-Btl. 352 

Gefechtsstand – le Parc de la Mace (near la Butte, south of Tilly)

Kdr.:		Rittmeister Eitel Gerth

1.-4. Kp.

	Pi.-Btl. 352 

Gefechtsstand – St. Martin de Blagny

Kdr.:		Hauptmann Paul Fritz

1.-3. Kp.

Feld-Ers.-Btl. 352 (one 5cm m.Pak, one 7.5cm s.Pak, one 7.5cm le.IH, and one 10.5cm 

le.FH)

Gefechtsstand – Planquery (north of Caumont)

Kdr.: 		Major Georg Teudesmann

1.-5. Kp.

Pz.Jg.-Abtl. 352 

Gefechtsstand – Mestry 

Kdr.:		Hauptmann Werner Jahn

	1. (Sfl.) Kp. – Bricqueville (14 7.5cm s.Pak (Sfl.))

2. (Stu.G.) Kp. – Château de Colombières (ten Stu.G.)

		3.(Flak) Kp. – Pont l’Abbé (15 kilometers south of Valognes) (nine 3.7cm Flak)

	Gren.-Regt. 726 (attached from 716. Inf.-Div.)

Gefechtsstand – Château de Sully

Kdr.:		Oberst Walter Korfes

I. Btl.

Gefechtsstand – Maissons (WN 54)

		1. Kp. – Port en Bessin

		2. Kp. – St. Honorine-des-Pertes

		3. Kp. – Colleville-sur-Mer

			4. Kp. – Longues-sur-Mer (on the coast northwest of Monvieux)

III. Btl.

Gefechtsstand – Château de Jucoville

		9. Kp. – Château d’ Englesqueville

		10. Kp. – St. Laurent sur Mer

		11. Kp. – Vierville

		12. Kp. – Grandcamp 

Ost-Btl. 439 (IV./Gren.-Regt. 726) 

Gefechtsstand – Les Veys (vicinity of Isigny)

Kdr.:	Hauptmann Hans Becker

1.-4. Kp.

			Züg/14. (Pz.Jg.) Kp. (three 5cm m.Pak)

III./Art.-Regt. 1716 (- 10. Bttr.)

Gefechtsstand – Le Cambe

8. Bttr. – Maisy La Martiniere (Wn 84) (four 10cm le.F.H. 14/19 (t)) 

9. Bttr. –  Maisy Les Perruques (Wn 83) (six 15cm s.F.H. 414 (f))

Strength as of 1 March was 12,734 and at least 335 HiWi. As of 1 April it was reported to be 494 men overstrength, although that probably only refers to the German component. According to http://www.omaha-beach.org/US-Version/352/352.html as of 1 June the division had 333 officers (only half with combat experience), 2,164 NCO (30 percent understrength), and 1,455 HiWi. 716. Inf.-Div. (bo) (7 K.V.A.-H1-K.V.A. Caen)

Gefechtsstand – Caen

Kdr: 			Generalleutnant Wilhelm Richter

Ia:			Major i.G. Bachus

Ib:			Major Wolf

Ic:			Major d.R. Wiegmann

IIa:			Major Heintze

K.V.-Gr. Riva-Bella 

K.V.U.-Gr. Orne 

K.V.U.-Gr. Lion-sur-Mer

K.V.-Gr. Courseulles 

K.V.U.-Gr. Seulles 

K.V.U.-Gr. Normandie

		Inf.-Div.-Nachr.-Abtl. 716

			Kdr.:		Major Werner Liedloff

		Nachschub-Btl. 716

Verwaltungs-Btl. 716

	Sanitäts-Btl. 716

	Veterinär-Kp. 716

Gren.-Regt. 726 (attached to 352. Inf.-Div.)

I. Btl. (attached to 352. Inf.-Div.)

II.Btl.

Gefechtsstand – St. Croix-sur-Mer (Bazenville) (14 May)

		5. Kp. – north of Creully 

6. Kp. – Bazenville

7. Kp. – Sainte-Croix-sur-Mer

8. Kp. – north of Creully 

III. Btl. (attached to 352. Inf.-Div.)

Ost-Btl. 439 (IV./Gren.-Regt. 726) (attached to 352. Inf.-Div.)

			14. (Pz.Jg.) Kp. (- one Züg, three 5cm m.Pak and three 7.5cm s.Pak)

Gren.-Regt. 736

Gefechtsstand – Colleville-sur-Orne (WN 17)

Kdr.:		Oberst Ludwig Krug

		Adjutant:	Josef Grüne

I. Btl.

Gefechtsstand – Ouistreham (WN 14)

1. Kp. – Stützpunkt Franceville West (WN 05)

2. Kp. – Stützpunktgruppe 08 (Riva Bella)

3. Kp. – WN 03 and 04 (Franceville Plage)

4. Kp. – Ouistreham-Val WN 09 (Reserve)

II. Btl.

Gefechtsstand – Tailleville (WN 23)

Kdr.:		Hauptmann Deptolla

5. Kp. – Bernières (WN 28, 28a) – St.-Aubin (WN 27)

6. Kp. – Stp. Courseulles (WN 29, 30, 31)

7. Kp. – Graye-sur-Mer, La Rivière

8. Kp. – Tailleville-Tombette (in reserve behind Bernières)

III. Btl.

Gefechtsstand – Cresserons

Kdr.:		Major Pipor

9. Kp. – Langrune-Luc (WN 24, 26)

10. Kp. – Lion-Hermanville (WN 18, 20, 20a, 21)

11. Kp. – in reserve behind Luc-sur-Mer (WN 25)

12. Kp. – in reserve at Douvres-la-Délivrande (WN 22)

IV./Gren.-Regt. 736 (Ost-Btl. 642)  

Gefechtsstand – Amfreville 

Kdr.:		Hauptmann Heinz Plate

		1. Kp. – Stützpunkt Franceville (Ost WN 02)

		3. Kp. – Hermanville (WN 19)

		4. Kp. – Bavent

	14. (Pz.Jg.) Kp. (six 5cm m.Pak and three 7.5cm s.Pak, static beach defenses)

Ost-Btl. 441 

Gefechtsstand – Crépon (northeast of Bayeux)

		1. Kp. – Vaux (north of Bayeux)

		2. Kp. – Reviers 

		3. Kp. – Meuvaines (northeast of Bayeux)

	4. Kp. – Ver-sur-Mer (northeast of Bayeux) 

Art.-Regt. 1716 

	Gefechtsstand – Unknown 

		Kdr.: 		Oberstleutnant Helmut Knüppe

I. Abtl.

Gefechtsstand – Colomby

1. Bttr. – Merville (four 10cm le.F.H. 14/19 (t))

2. Bttr. – WN 16 (Colleville-sur-Orne) (four 10cm le.F.H. 14/19 (t))

3. Bttr. – Bréville (northeast of Caen) (four 7.5cm FK 16 n.A.) (some sources indicate these were four 10cm le.F.H. 14/19 (t))

4. Bttr. – WN 12 (Ouistreham “Water Tower Battery”) (four 15cm 

s.F.H. 414 (f))

10. Bttr. – 4 kilometers northeast of Bayeux (four 15cm s.F.H. 414 (f))

II. Abtl.

Gefechtsstand  – Crépon

5. Bttr. – WN 35b (Crépon) (four 10cm le.F.H. 14/19 (t))

6. Bttr. – WN 32 (la Mare-Fontaine) (four 10cm le.F.H. 14/19 (t))

7. Bttr. – WN 28a (Bény-sur-Mer) (four 10cm le.F.H. 14/19 (t))

III. Abtl. (attached to 352. Inf.-Div.)

Pi.-Abtl. 716 

	Gefechtsstand – Herouvillette 

	Kdr.:		Major Kurt Salzenberg

	1. Kp. – Herouvillette 

2. Kp. – Anisy

Pz.Jg.-Abtl. 716

	Gefechtsstand – Biéville

	Kdr.:		Oberleutnant Kurt Kaergel

1. (Sfl.) Kp. – Biéville (ten 7.5cm s.Pak Sfl. Auf Lorraine Schlepper)

2. (Pz.Jg.-bo) Kp. – Reviers (nine 7.5cm and three 8.8cm s.Pak) 

3. (Flak) Kp. – Anisy (one Züg was east of the Orne 1 kilometer west of 

Sallenelles)  

s.Art.-Abtl. 989 (t-mot) (est. 400)

Gefechtsstand – Reviers (east of Bayeux)

1. Bttr. – Basly (four 12.2cm s.F.H. 396 (r))

2. Bttr. – Amblie (four 12.2cm s.F.H. 396 (r))

3. Bttr. – Creully (four 12.2cm s.F.H. 396 (r))

H.K.A.-Abtl. 1260

Gefechtsstand – Ryes (south of Arromanches)

1. Bttr. – St. Aubin-d’Arquenay (Ouistreham)  (six 15.5cm K 420 (f))

2. Bttr. – Pointe du Hoc (six 15.5cm K 420 (f))

3. Bttr. – WN 35a (Mont Fleury) (four 12.2cm K 390 (r))

MKB Longues – WN 48 (four 15cm TbtsK C/36) (attached)

Strength as of 1 May was 7,771, possibly not including HiWi. The division did not have a Feld-Ers.-Btl. or Füs.-Btl. organized. The division began to withdraw soon after the invasion and by 1 July began moving to join 19. Armee on the French Riviera. By 20 July it was assigned to IV L.W.-Feld-K. relieving 272 Inf.-Div.

2. Kp. IV./Gren.-Regt. 736 (Ost-Btl. 642) was disbanded due to lack of strength on 30 May. It had been at Amfreville with the battalion headquarters and is occasionally shown there.

Ost-Btl. 441 attached to Gren.-Regt. 736.

Also, this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060527031200/http://web.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/gerob/infdiv/352id.html

and this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060527031011/http://web.telia.com/~u18313395/normandy/gerob/infdiv/716id.html

Regards

Jon

[Magpie_Oz]

OK since I have you pros here. What are Fusiliers? I take it light infantry. What would the 352 and 716 th infantry divsions be? There seems to be very little AT capability with Fusiliers.....

Fusiliers has had a lot of different meanings over time especially in the German Army, by WW2 however the name was really just a traditional name that had no real significance per se.

[Tactical Wargamer]

Great thanks guys so much!

[Frankster65]

Fusiliers has had a lot of different meanings over time especially in the German Army, by WW2 however the name was really just a traditional name that had no real significance per se.

I had thought I had come across some reading material explaining that Fusiliers were really the old recon battalion of the infantry division now basically used in the role of a mobile divisional reserve. They were equipped with bicycles and not horses anymore thus giving them that added mobility as opposed to their regular infantry comrades. Fusiliers was the fancy name given them to reflect this.

[JasonC]

A few comments - first one poster said that the 352 was underequipped, but actually it was lavishly equipped, easily the best Heer ID in the theater and one of the best in the whole army at that date. It had over 60 machineguns per battalion, for instance, enough for every squad to field 2 MG42s, on top of HMG versions at company and battalion levels. 81mm mortars were similarly abundant, and it had actual AFVs for its Panzerjaeger battalion, both StuGs and Marders (admittedly in small numbers, but full TOE for an ID of the era).

Next a point about the PaK companies in each infantry regiment - yes they typically had 3 heavy PaK as their major equipment, but they also had additional sections of foot troops equipped with infantry AT weapons - panzerschrecks, panzerfausts, and the like - which could be farmed out to the regiment's battalions or concentrated to increase infantry AT defense along this or that avenue. Sometimes these companies also had a modest amount of light AA (like 4 20s), sometimes the regiment would have a separate light AA company. In some divisions the PaK would be only 50mm varieties, or shorter "French 75s" (75/38s), but the 352nd had full high velocity PaK 40s (75L48).

FWIW...

[Broadsword56]

Since we've been trying to translate AT counters from the 35nd Infantry Division here...

These are the 4 counters that Joe Balkoski's "Saint Lo" operational boardgame has for divisional AT assets in the 352nd, from June 11-18, 1944:

Looks like Companies 1 and 2 are Stug III companies and 3 and 4 are 75mm towed AT companies.

But what would you say these 4 counters really would represent, specifically, by way of unit names, guns and personnel, etc., to translate into CMBN units?

Ae these counters an oversimplification, and should the Stug companies have Marders in them too? Should the towed units have other types of guns in them too, and how many? What numbers and proportions, do you think?

(Typically, in the boardgame, one or two of these at a time can be assigned to an eligible German battalion of the 352nd to help it out in a battle.)

[JonS]

From my post above (06/03/2011):

Pz.Jg.-Abtl. 352

Gefechtsstand – Mestry

Kdr.: Hauptmann Werner Jahn

1. (Sfl.) Kp. – Bricqueville (14 7.5cm s.Pak (Sfl.))

2. (Stu.G.) Kp. – Château de Colombières (ten Stu.G.)

3. (Flak) Kp. – Pont l’Abbé (15 kilometers south of Valognes) (nine 3.7cm Flak)

[c3k]

Zetterling, "Normandy 1944", p. 277 states that each of the 3 regimental PaK companies (14./914, 915, 916) had 3 7.5cm PaK 40's apiece.

The divisional anti-tank battlalion (Pz.Jg.-Abtl. 352) is stated to have:

14 Marder 38

10 StuG III

9 3.7cm Motorized FlaK

The divisional TO&E diagram shows the abteilung to have 3 companies: 1. Pak(sf), 2. StuG, 3. Flak. It would seem the 14 Marder 38's would belong to the 1. Pak (sf).

These sources align very closely. Nomenclature differences account for "Marder 38" vice "s.PaK (Sfl.)".

[Broadsword56]

Excellent, c3k, thanks.

Do you think that by July 11-18, these strengths were less, more, or the same?

Normally I would assume D-Day and the June fighting whittled those numbers way down.

But since the AT bn was divisional reserve, and because the 352nd received some infusions of troops from other divisions (like a regiment from the 353rd) for the Saint-Lo battles, maybe these strengths might be pretty much the same by July 11-18. Dunno.

[Rokko]

On a more generall note, is there a contemplative source on equipment of units during the Normandy timeframe (and maybe above)?

For instance, I'm often having a hard time finding out what equipment was actually there, despite TOE-regulations.

For instance, IIRC, all US regimental Cannon Companies were supposed to have M7 self propelled artillery guns, but in fact most still had the towed M3 105mm's. So how do you find out which did and which didn't?

Or German Panzergrenadiers. By TOE there was one mechanized batallion per Panzer-Division, but how do you which one? For instance, Panzer-Lehr was completely mechanized, this is rather well known, but 12th SS mechanized PG Bn was III./26th Reg.

There seems to be no general rule and its really a pain in the butt finding these things out.

Just recently I was looking for the composition of the PzJgAbt. 38, but no chance - after a few hours a found a note in model building forum that the 1st and 2nd companies were equipped with JPz IV, but that was the utmost information I could find.

Really frustrating....

[JonS]

Zetterling's book is your primary reference for the Germans. There was an online version, but it can be a bit hard to find now.

BTW, 'Sfl.' translates a 'self-propelled.'

Stanton is probably your best bet for the US forces.

[JasonC]

You can still find the Zetterling OOB online (by far the best source ever on this stuff) using the Internet Archive aka the "wayback machine". That records old webpages to allow looking up how they used to look, and is the only way to get to it now since the live current site is gone.

Here is the archive URL -

http://web.archive.org/web/20080416060639/http://home.swipnet.se/normandy/gerob/gerob.html

[Rokko]

Wow, thanks a lot, what an awesome source!

I was considering buying that book, but unfortunately its a little hard to come by where I live.

Might do it later though