Height Adjusting Maps

[StoneAge]

Why not put some small land islands to represent the landing craft in shallow ford. Place a small wall right around to give a little cover will act a bit like the landing craft walls.

[MikeyD]

Why not put some small land islands to represent the landing craft...

I actually had tried that already without much success, myself. A good concept but the result us uuuuugly.

One thing that might be tried is to really extend the water back by a thousand meters or so then do a couple of those wall islands to represent ships - Place an FO there to direct bombarment of the beach.

[para]

I actually had tried that already without much success, myself. A good concept but the result us uuuuugly.

One thing that might be tried is to really extend the water back by a thousand meters or so then do a couple of those wall islands to represent ships - Place an FO there to direct bombarment of the beach.

Interesting ideas fellas :-)

I have placed lots and lots of large and small craters on the beach. This will provide cover for FO's, mortar/mg teams, if they make it that far. It is a long beach and the inf will have to wade ashore a fair distance.

i will see how it goes and if necessary use your idea if it proves to be impossible to gain a successful landing.

I do want it to be very difficult but not impossible to succeed.

if any of you guys know alot about Omaha and can help with the allied and axis force selection to make it fairly historic i would appreciate that.

[para]

This is as far as i have got, lots i still want to do..opinions welcome

http://imgur.com/xNUjB

http://imgur.com/0dxc6

http://imgur.com/bG032

http://imgur.com/bDOUK

[Agua]

Well, you've got a handle on height adjustment. I just got my mind wrapped around it before going to bed last night.

[para]

Well, you've got a handle on height adjustment. I just got my mind wrapped around it before going to bed last night.

yeah it ain't easy for the uninitiated such as I. I have got the hang of it now though ;-)

[para]

http://imgur.com/pG19e

http://imgur.com/Iu8QN

http://imgur.com/M5CLb

[Broadsword56]

Interesting ideas fellas :-)

I have placed lots and lots of large and small craters on the beach. This will provide cover for FO's, mortar/mg teams, if they make it that far. It is a long beach and the inf will have to wade ashore a fair distance.

i will see how it goes and if necessary use your idea if it proves to be impossible to gain a successful landing.

I do want it to be very difficult but not impossible to succeed.

if any of you guys know alot about Omaha and can help with the allied and axis force selection to make it fairly historic i would appreciate that.

Just one thing I do know (because I just read about it recently): If you want an Omaha Beach that resembles the historical one on D Day, do not put craters all over it for infantry and FOs to take cover in. The craters were supposed to happen, but the actual naval bombardment landed farther inland and the troops were stunned to find the beach uncratered. That's one reason why the Omaha landings were so bloody for the 29th ID. OTOH, a cratered beach would make the scenario a bit easier and more fun for the Allied player and perhaps make for a better game experience. Your call.

[para]

Just one thing I do know (because I just read about it recently): If you want an Omaha Beach that resembles the historical one on D Day, do not put craters all over it for infantry and FOs to take cover in. The craters were supposed to happen, but the actual naval bombardment landed farther inland and the troops were stunned to find the beach uncratered. That's one reason why the Omaha landings were so bloody for the 29th ID. OTOH, a cratered beach would make the scenario a bit easier and more fun for the Allied player and perhaps make for a better game experience. Your call.

I had read that somewhere too. I also read that a RN warship came to the rescue, ran itself aground and started shelling the Germans, is this true?

Anyway, I have put craters in to help the attacker and cos i like the look of em. If it is too easy i can always remove them :-)

anyone able to help me with a problem? I'm quite well on with the Omaha map and now I'm trying to place German fortifications(barb wire/bunkers mines/hedgehogs) on to the beach and the cliffs. The Germans will be the AI player.

I go to the units page select everything i want then go to the 3d map. I try to place them but have two problems..

1 I do not seem to be able to orientate them to the direction i want i.e. towards the sea

2 Even when i manage to set some down, non of the units of placements are saved.

I'm having placing fortifications for the AI defender, what am i doing wrong please?

[para]

some basic trenches to the rear of the cliffs

http://imgur.com/o57Is

[czarejs]

The allies will obviously be infantry with engineers and have arty support. DD tanks didn't make it to Omaha afaik. Then after a set period of time the 2nd wave will follow and then another wave. Their objective will be to exit the beach and mop up all resistance beyond the cliff top and then to exit at the rear of the map.

Para,

According to Osprey's Campaign Series D-Day Volume 1 Omaha Beach

"Four companies of DD tanks were supposed to be launched.......swim the 5,000 yards to shore by H-Hour-0630hrs. The naval officer in charge of the ......DD tanks of the 743rd Tank Battalion.....reached agreement with the tank commander to land the tanks directly onto the beach. The LCT's landed the DD tanks on Dog Green and Dog Red beaches starting at 0629hrs. Company B, coming into the beach at the Vierville draw(Exit D-1), came under heavy anti-tank gunfire...... Company A with the normal M4 tanks with wading trunks landed about the same time, so that 40 out of 48 tanks made it to shore.

The situation to the west was much worse. The two captains from the 741st Tank Battalion outranked the senior naval officers and insisted that the DD tanks be launched as ordered 5000 yards offshore.... The DD tanks immediately encountered problems on entering the water.....wind and sea conditions sank all but two from Co. B......LCT-600 decided to drop the remaining three on the beach. As a result of the 32 DD tanks of the 741st Tank Battalion only five made it to shore on Easy Red Beach.....Following the two doomed companies of DD tanks was Co. A with M4A1 tanks with wading trunks..... only 18 of it 48 tanks reached shore and three were knocked out by anti-tank guns almost immediately. In spite of their losses, the tanks attempted to carry out their mission and began engaging various bunkers and defensive works."

[MikeGER]

Para, i am locking forward to your project

..and thought about the landingcraft dilemma

here's a test of carefully 'submerged M3s' facing with the backside to the beach and the front a little deeper in the water

doesnt look to bad from the distance...

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8730/beachtest1.jpg

or even zoomed in

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6260/beachtest2.jpg

what you think?

Regards

Mike

(PS: when i try to caputre a screen the smoke (first pict, right M3 burning) doest get captured?.... strange)

on a side-note

playing with fording tiles ... its possible to submerge a infantry unit compleatly ...and they came walking out of the water ... so 'frog man'/ 'commando' / 'beach recon' / UDT -scenarios, with an according uniform-mod could be possible...

[para]

Para,

According to Osprey's Campaign Series D-Day Volume 1 Omaha Beach

"Four companies of DD tanks were supposed to be launched.......swim the 5,000 yards to shore by H-Hour-0630hrs. The naval officer in charge of the ......DD tanks of the 743rd Tank Battalion.....reached agreement with the tank commander to land the tanks directly onto the beach. The LCT's landed the DD tanks on Dog Green and Dog Red beaches starting at 0629hrs. Company B, coming into the beach at the Vierville draw(Exit D-1), came under heavy anti-tank gunfire...... Company A with the normal M4 tanks with wading trunks landed about the same time, so that 40 out of 48 tanks made it to shore.

The situation to the west was much worse. The two captains from the 741st Tank Battalion outranked the senior naval officers and insisted that the DD tanks be launched as ordered 5000 yards offshore.... The DD tanks immediately encountered problems on entering the water.....wind and sea conditions sank all but two from Co. B......LCT-600 decided to drop the remaining three on the beach. As a result of the 32 DD tanks of the 741st Tank Battalion only five made it to shore on Easy Red Beach.....Following the two doomed companies of DD tanks was Co. A with M4A1 tanks with wading trunks..... only 18 of it 48 tanks reached shore and three were knocked out by anti-tank guns almost immediately. In spite of their losses, the tanks attempted to carry out their mission and began engaging various bunkers and defensive works."

I didn't know that! i always thought that no tanks made it to Omaha intact and fighting fit. In that case i shall have some Shermans working some burning and destroyed

[para]

Para, i am locking forward to your project

..and thought about the landingcraft dilemma

here's a test of carefully 'submerged M3s' facing with the backside to the beach and the front a little deeper in the water

doesnt look to bad from the distance...

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8730/beachtest1.jpg

or even zoomed in

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6260/beachtest2.jpg

what you think?

Regards

Mike

(PS: when i try to caputre a screen the smoke (first pict, right M3 burning) doest get captured?.... strange)

on a side-note

playing with fording tiles ... its possible to submerge a infantry unit compleatly ...and they came walking out of the water ... so 'frog man'/ 'commando' / 'beach recon' / UDT -scenarios, with an according uniform-mod could be possible...

I have shortened the sea deployment zone because it was taking the infantry 1.43secs at fast mode just to clear the water. This was immediately making them tired/exhausted and they still had to get to the sea wall which is in further away.

I'm stuck now though :-( because to finish the map off i wanted to place concrete bunkers on the cliff tops. AP & AT mines on the beach along with masses of barb wire and hedgehogs. I also want to place sand bags around the edges of the trenches to the rear of cliffs. I just don't know how to do this.

[czarejs]

Afaik, you place the fortifications on the map in the 3d map preview. When you first purchase them and go into the preview they are on the map. Then you move them around in there. They stay where you put them. Two problems..... first with the bunkers I didn't see any way to purchase them singularly. You get a combination of concrete and wooden bunkers which would be out of place. Second, is there a sandbag wall fortification? You might need a mod of the low stone wall to make it into sandbags.

[Rex J.]

I also read that a RN warship came to the rescue, ran itself aground and started shelling the Germans, is this true?

A few destroyers came so close to the beach that their hull's scraped bottom a couple of time, though they never actually ran aground AFAIK. This is from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaha_Beach#Naval_support):

Naval support

The only artillery support for the troops making these tentative advances was from the navy. Finding targets difficult to spot, and in fear of hitting their own troops, the big guns of the battleships and cruisers concentrated fire on the flanks of the Omaha beaches. The destroyers, however, were able to get in closer, and from 08:00 began engaging their own targets. At 09:50, two minutes after the McCook destroyed a 75 mm gun position in WN-74, the destroyers were ordered to get as close in as possible. Some approached within 1000 yards (900 m) several times, scraping bottom and risking running aground.[49] An engineer who had landed in the first wave at Fox Red, watching the Frankford steaming in towards shore, thought she had been badly hit and was being beached. Instead, she turned parallel to the beach and cruised westwards, guns blazing at targets of opportunity. Thinking she would turn back out to sea, the engineer soon saw that she had instead begun backing up, guns still firing. At one point, gunners aboard the Frankford saw an immobilized tank at the water's edge, still firing. Watching the fall of its shot, they followed up with a salvo of their own. In this manner, the tank acted as the ship's fire control party for several minutes.

I'd heard elsewhere that 2 RN destroyers engaged targets on Omaha from close range; wiki describes a couple of US destroyers doing that, so I'm not sure if there were more than 2 or what.

I have read and heard from several sources that direct fire from the destroyers was probably the main turning point on Omaha. On the other hand I saw a documentary last June focussing on the role of the DD tanks on Omaha, and their conclusion was that the tanks, though few in number and off to a rocky start, played a major role in knocking out German bunkers. I've also read accounts that the soldiers, slowly creeping their way up the bluffs and knocking out bunkers with hand grenades was the main reason for success.

Obviously it took a combined effort to overcome the monumental job the infantry was facing. Gamewise, having infantry in the first wave, infantry and tanks in the second, and smaller naval guns arriving later should simulate the overall effect.

Also, here are some youtube shots taken from parts of Omaha (in the first one, footage from the beach itself starts at 8:15):

I know I've seen some great websites with timetables (and units) of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd waves, but can't find my bookmarks for them at the moment. I'll try and find it and post back when I have time. Good luck with the map, I'd love to see a good beach assault map (PdH being more of a cliff assault and all).

[para]

A few destroyers came so close to the beach that their hull's scraped bottom a couple of time, though they never actually ran aground AFAIK. This is from wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaha_Beach#Naval_support):

Naval support

The only artillery support for the troops making these tentative advances was from the navy. Finding targets difficult to spot, and in fear of hitting their own troops, the big guns of the battleships and cruisers concentrated fire on the flanks of the Omaha beaches. The destroyers, however, were able to get in closer, and from 08:00 began engaging their own targets. At 09:50, two minutes after the McCook destroyed a 75 mm gun position in WN-74, the destroyers were ordered to get as close in as possible. Some approached within 1000 yards (900 m) several times, scraping bottom and risking running aground.[49] An engineer who had landed in the first wave at Fox Red, watching the Frankford steaming in towards shore, thought she had been badly hit and was being beached. Instead, she turned parallel to the beach and cruised westwards, guns blazing at targets of opportunity. Thinking she would turn back out to sea, the engineer soon saw that she had instead begun backing up, guns still firing. At one point, gunners aboard the Frankford saw an immobilized tank at the water's edge, still firing. Watching the fall of its shot, they followed up with a salvo of their own. In this manner, the tank acted as the ship's fire control party for several minutes.

I'd heard elsewhere that 2 RN destroyers engaged targets on Omaha from close range; wiki describes a couple of US destroyers doing that, so I'm not sure if there were more than 2 or what.

I have read and heard from several sources that direct fire from the destroyers was probably the main turning point on Omaha. On the other hand I saw a documentary last June focussing on the role of the DD tanks on Omaha, and their conclusion was that the tanks, though few in number and off to a rocky start, played a major role in knocking out German bunkers. I've also read accounts that the soldiers, slowly creeping their way up the bluffs and knocking out bunkers with hand grenades was the main reason for success.

Obviously it took a combined effort to overcome the monumental job the infantry was facing. Gamewise, having infantry in the first wave, infantry and tanks in the second, and smaller naval guns arriving later should simulate the overall effect.

Also, here are some youtube shots taken from parts of Omaha (in the first one, footage from the beach itself starts at 8:15):

I know I've seen some great websites with timetables (and units) of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd waves, but can't find my bookmarks for them at the moment. I'll try and find it and post back when I have time. Good luck with the map, I'd love to see a good beach assault map (PdH being more of a cliff assault and all).

Cheers for that

[para]

Afaik, you place the fortifications on the map in the 3d map preview. When you first purchase them and go into the preview they are on the map. Then you move them around in there. They stay where you put them. Two problems..... first with the bunkers I didn't see any way to purchase them singularly. You get a combination of concrete and wooden bunkers which would be out of place. Second, is there a sandbag wall fortification? You might need a mod of the low stone wall to make it into sandbags.

Bunkers come in 5's wood and concrete but you can change them all to concrete.

I have lowered the ground level behind the bunkers on the cliffs in which i am going to place trenches.

i have tried it and it works. Ok guys at ease I'm up and running again

cheers all

[para]

righto, i am looking for some members who have created lots of maps to have a peep at mine for an appraisal and if possible some pointers.

anyone up for this?

Mord need not apply I'm going to send you it anyway mate, if you still want me too?

[theFightingSeabee]

I'll take a look at it. I'll PM you my email address.

[para]

I'll take a look at it. I'll PM you my email address.

Thanks TFS :-)

am i right in saying that when i send you the map, for you to see everything you will have to deploy the armies too? Cos when i want to see the AI fortifications i have to load the map and deploy axis AI at the same time. That's when i see everything i have done...

these pics may explain what i mean...

http://imgur.com/HUhv1

http://imgur.com/8Sw3R

http://imgur.com/Wd3I5

pics of the basic trench system and concrete mg bunkers to the rear of the cliff. I'm hoping to place mortar teams in sand pits behind the bunkers and above the trenches next. Then move on to placing the hedgehogs,AP & AT mines next.

[theFightingSeabee]

para, I sent you another email.

You should deploy both forces where you want them to start the scenario. Remember that your last camera view before exiting (and saving) the troop deployment will be the first camera view when the player starts the scenario for that side.

Keep on working. It looks like it'll be a crazy battle! This reminds me of my first couple of scenarios.

[Rex J.]

Here's one of the sites I was thinking of, the timetable for the 16th RCT (1st Infantry Division) and a description of some of the events.

http://www.warchronicle.com/16th_infantry/officialrecords_wwii/invasionfrance_s3.htm

[para]

para, I sent you another email.

You should deploy both forces where you want them to start the scenario. Remember that your last camera view before exiting (and saving) the troop deployment will be the first camera view when the player starts the scenario for that side.

Keep on working. It looks like it'll be a crazy battle! This reminds me of my first couple of scenarios.

cheers TFS will do :-)

[para]

Here's one of the sites I was thinking of, the timetable for the 16th RCT (1st Infantry Division) and a description of some of the events.

http://www.warchronicle.com/16th_infantry/officialrecords_wwii/invasionfrance_s3.htm

Thanks Rex J