Height Adjusting Maps

[PanzerMike]

Messing around myself with editor to create a beach environment. I find that flavor object Pole 2 makes a perfect mined obstacle lookalike. Also if you place farm 3 object in shallow water it resembles a Belgian gate :-)

All in all, i find it quite easy to make a believable omaha beach. Shame we don't have Higgins boats.

By the way, for a REALLY detailed description including VERY detailed maps, you could try the book Omaha Beach by Geroge Bernage (ISBN: 2-84048-154-5). It is translated out of French and the translation is a bit 'wooden', but the maps and drawings of the beach and each and every bunker is really good. And there there is D-Day by Stephen Ambrose. I love that one.

[para]

Trying to get an historically accurate Omaha map is a bit too much for me at this point.

So I am just going to do a beach scenario for my 1st ever map. Which i am hoping will be mayhem and a challenge.

[De Savage]

Trying to get an historically accurate Omaha map is a bit too much for me at this point.

Is this map useful?

Here's more about Omaha beach: http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-11/100-11.HTM

And more from (http://www.serviceofsupply.com/ReproPackages.htm):

[para]

Is this map useful?

Here's more about Omaha beach: http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-11/100-11.HTM

And more from (http://www.serviceofsupply.com/ReproPackages.htm):

Thanks again De Savage

[para]

Is this map useful?

Here's more about Omaha beach: http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-11/100-11.HTM

And more from (http://www.serviceofsupply.com/ReproPackages.htm):

De savage

Is there anyway of getting much clearer copies of these maps? They are very difficult to see and read and i have only one half decent eye ;-)

[permanent666]

i'm working on an omaha map as well:

overview:

les moulins draw

st. laurent draw

it is far from finished but at least the contour map is done - i hope i will find the time to finish it

[para]

Omaha was apparently 7000m long how would one represent that in a CMBN map? What size would my map have to be to be fairly accurate size wise?

[permanent666]

Omaha was apparently 7000m long how would one represent that in a CMBN map? What size would my map have to be to be fairly accurate size wise?

you could split omaha beach up and make a campaign or try to shrink omaha beach to 4km. my first plan was to recreate les moulins but after some reading i came to the conclusion that the tactical value for the player would be zero. the us player needs some room to manouver

btw maybe someone could help me:

were the buildings in les moulins razed - because in some plans there are no buildings:

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-11/mp2.jpg

whereas in others the buildings are there:

http://www.skylighters.org/maproom/omaha/oe4.html

[para]

you could split omaha beach up and make a campaign or try to shrink omaha beach to 4km. my first plan was to recreate les moulins but after some reading i came to the conclusion that the tactical value for the player would be zero. the us player needs some room to manouver

btw maybe someone could help me:

were the buildings in les moulins razed - because in some plans there are no buildings:

http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/100-11/mp2.jpg

whereas in others the buildings are there:

http://www.skylighters.org/maproom/omaha/oe4.html

That's exactly what i plan to do now. Going to have the Dog sectors only which cover 0.82miles

[hoolaman]

This aerial view from this siteshows Les Moulins and it doesn't look like there was much left standing there. I'd say the occasional damaged building would be all.

The whole place would have looked like a giant excavation/building site by the looks of all the dirt and fortifications.

Another thing that a lot of CM map-makers tend to forget is there would have been many many craters around the area.

[PanzerMike]

The biggest issue I encounter right now is not making a nice looking map. This is quite doable, even though CMBN was not designed for beach landings.

The main issue is the lack of proper fortifications. There are only two types op pillboxes in CMBN and both are quite useless. They do not represent the sturdy bunkers as often found on Omaha. They seem to be lesser quality small pillboxes that can be taken out even by small arms fire from hundres of meters. I have tested my battle many times and the bunkers just don't last very long. They are too feeble.

There are also no bunkers for AT guns or Infantry guns. Putting them on a cliff behind sand bags just is not good enough. They last only a short time before they are knocked out. Also no flamethrowers of any kind is sorely missed.

Also, the troops on the beach are not being suppressed enough by the machine gun fire as modeled in CMBN at the moment. What are your experiences so far in trying to create a viable beach landing within the current constraints of CMBN?

[TCMHQ]

Yes. I encountered the same problems while trying to create a "shrinked" Omaha Beach map:

The AT Bunkers at WN 61,WN 62, WN 65 and WN 72 can not be shown with the current engine, but maybe you can try to protect your AT guns with high stonewalls ? IMHO the biggest letdown for a pure beach landing scenario ist the lack of cover for the defenders... no tobruks for the Mgs and mortars.... and the "cover value" for foxholes and trenches is way too low. I made several tests with an advancing regular US squad against an MG42 section on the cliffs and even on bigger distances the MG was "dead meat" after a few seconds.

I hope some of the issues mentioned above are subject for a future patch.....time will tell.

[para]

The biggest issue I encounter right now is not making a nice looking map. This is quite doable, even though CMBN was not designed for beach landings.

The main issue is the lack of proper fortifications. There are only two types op pillboxes in CMBN and both are quite useless. They do not represent the sturdy bunkers as often found on Omaha. They seem to be lesser quality small pillboxes that can be taken out even by small arms fire from hundres of meters. I have tested my battle many times and the bunkers just don't last very long. They are too feeble.

There are also no bunkers for AT guns or Infantry guns. Putting them on a cliff behind sand bags just is not good enough. They last only a short time before they are knocked out. Also no flamethrowers of any kind is sorely missed.

Also, the troops on the beach are not being suppressed enough by the machine gun fire as modeled in CMBN at the moment. What are your experiences so far in trying to create a viable beach landing within the current constraints of CMBN?

Exactly the same problems. I have got a list of all the defensive positions for WN60 through to WN74 for Omaha and quite lot out the weapons and fortifications do not appear in the game.

I also ran a battle and just like you the present pill boxes got taken out quick smart along with the defenders.

Even with my defenders on a very high cliff with clear views they could not suppress and hold the attackers for long. I'm not sure a decent and challenging historical scenario around Omaha is actually possible at the moment.

Although the Point Du Hoc scenario is excellent it is not a beach landing as such.

[PanzerMike]

The only thing that sorta works is nerfing the attackers. Low motivation and fitness against highly motivated defender with high fitness. Not sure I like that, kinda artificial. Giving the attackers a few tanks is a nono. My bunkers get blown up in seconds.

I also do not think the problems we encounter are easily solved. Granted, Cmbn is no invasion construction kit. But...the issues with the feeble bunkers, the missing AT bunkers or gun pits and the ease with which mg's are taken out due to lack of suppression are debatable imho. Some finetuning may be required. I wish these things were moddable. I think right now Omaha is a dead end.

[para]

The only thing that sorta works is nerfing the attackers. Low motivation and fitness against highly motivated defender with high fitness. Not sure I like that, kinda artificial. Giving the attackers a few tanks is a nono. My bunkers get blown up in seconds.

I also do not think the problems we encounter are easily solved. Granted, Cmbn is no invasion construction kit. But...the issues with the feeble bunkers, the missing AT bunkers or gun pits and the ease with which mg's are taken out due to lack of suppression are debatable imho. Some finetuning may be required. I wish these things were moddable. I think right now Omaha is a dead end.

Yeah couldn't have put it better myself. I have been frustrated trying to come up with something close to a challenge around a beach landing.

It's been a major fail so far

[permanent666]

nerfing the attackers isn't unrealistic at all. most of the gis saw combat on d-day the first time their fitness would be low because of the exhausting channel crossing, ammo counts would be low in some places - headcount as well. heavy weapons were rare in the first and second wave ...

of course it is only a matter of time until the gis will overcome the defenders by sheer numbers but the question is how many of your pixel soldiers will be dead in the end

[para]

managed to get this :-)

[theFightingSeabee]

An earlier version of the pointe du hoc scenario showed that the pillboxes can be quite robust. The testers ran out if ammo before taking them all out. Maybe you guys should try to get your desired effect by adding more bunkers with less heavy weapons for the attackers. Maybe put your german fo's in the pillboxes add well so they don't die as easily.

[permanent666]

my tests showed that it is a very bloody task to storm the beaches even in cmbn.

here is a screenshot of les moulins pre naval bombardment:

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