BF, You Blew It

[noxnoctum]

noxnoctum are you on steam as cc/Nox per chance?

yes, you're the one I posted to come back in the chat room . You joined then left like 5 seconds after haha. Luckily Alibaba showed up about 5 minutes later.

I'd register as "Nox" everywhere but unfortunately 99% of the time it's taken.

[LemoN]

Mwahahahaha. Hyperbole much?

Look, it would be great if TCP turn based makes it back in, but don't hysterical on us. Sure, PBEM may be less then ideal for some of you. But it is not the work of the devil. Chill out, just a little?

You obviously didn't read my previous post.

PBEM IS crap and horrible (for me and others), but we were aware of this since years and therefore it's nothing too shocking.

[Gryphonne]

In all honesty, it's not really a exaggeration. PBEM *does* require an additional amount of effort to keep it fast paced that really shouldn't be the necessary for those that want to play a reasonably paced good sized battle. I don't understand why autopause RT would have to be delayed even more than it already is. The engine is 3 years old, has evolved tremendously over time; surely, this can't be that much work. PBEM being less than ideal is an understatement come 2011.

Also, I think this community is starting to severely show a lack of respect to people voicing their criticism lately (not necessarily related to the above post). I don't know what's up with that, but the fanboyism should be cut, period. There should be room for constructive criticism.

All in all, I'd like to hear Steve's opinion on the possibility of an autopause RT mode within CMBN still.

[noxnoctum]

Why people didn't try the CMSF demo to see how the game played before pre ordering CMBN is beyond me....

Also I've been playing CMSF for two years SP in WEGO and with the new scenarios that come out I haven't been bored by the AI yet...and I defy anyone who will find the AI easy with a well made scenario...

Anway one mans meat is anothers poisen and I will be happy when all those who don't like the game bugger off and play something different...as I really do hope they don't hang around for the next god knows how many years moaning about how much they don't like it.

Can't wait for the time when the forum becomes a good communtiy with a love for the game like CMSF forum became...

AI's usually fine when they're on the defense, but they will ALWAYS suck on the offense. It didn't matter if BFC had 500 programmers working for them, I don't see AI being able to handle wargames on the same level as a decent human for at LEAST another decade.

Plus winning in SP, while definitely fun (I look forward to the SP campaigns), just doesn't give anywhere near the satisfaction of beating a human opponent.

[para]

yes, you're the one I posted to come back in the chat room . You joined then left like 5 seconds after haha. Luckily Alibaba showed up about 5 minutes later.

I'd register as "Nox" everywhere but unfortunately 99% of the time it's taken.

lol i see, well now i know it's you i will make sure i stick around. I'm in there now waiting on PJ Maybe for a bit if RT. i will hook up with you at some point for a game mate

[noxnoctum]

In all honesty, it's not really a exaggeration. PBEM *does* require an additional amount of effort to keep it fast paced that really shouldn't be the necessary for those that want to play a reasonably paced good sized battle. I don't understand why autopause RT would have to be delayed even more than it already is. The engine is 3 years old, has evolved tremendously over time; surely, this can't be that much work. PBEM being less than ideal is an understatement come 2011.

Also, I think this community is starting to severely show a lack of respect to people voicing their criticism lately (not necessarily related to the above post). I don't know what's up with that, but the fanboyism should be cut, period. There should be room for constructive criticism.

All in all, I'd like to hear Steve's opinion on the possibility of an autopause RT mode within CMBN still.

Yep, I remember I got flamed to hell and back when I complained about this like a year ago. (and a few other things, like my wishing to have an assault command along the lines of the CMBB one... you can still acheive a similar effect with microing "Quick" movement orders to allow for time for them to fire, but it requires quite a lot of extra work---definitely not possible in a RT game vs a human)

The sad thing is MOST people on here are adults and 40+ at that so it's really pathetic. We're not on the call of duty forums here...

[para]

In all honesty, it's not really a exaggeration. PBEM *does* require an additional amount of effort to keep it fast paced that really shouldn't be the necessary for those that want to play a reasonably paced good sized battle. I don't understand why autopause RT would have to be delayed even more than it already is. The engine is 3 years old, has evolved tremendously over time; surely, this can't be that much work. PBEM being less than ideal is an understatement come 2011.

Also, I think this community is starting to severely show a lack of respect to people voicing their criticism lately (not necessarily related to the above post). I don't know what's up with that, but the fanboyism should be cut, period. There should be room for constructive criticism.

All in all, I'd like to hear Steve's opinion on the possibility of an autopause RT mode within CMBN still.

Top post in particualr regarding people jumping on others, who do not toe the line. It is a great game, i love it and can't wait for my full game, but you should be able to critique parts you do not love without being slagged off.

[Wiggum]

Without a autopause RT mode or true WEGO TCP/IP i dont even think about starting playing MP.

At least, autopause RT is a must have, forcing a pause every 60sec. and wait for both players to be ready to go again (big red button) should not be a too big problem.

I mean, we have 2011 and PBEM isent the way to play MP today...

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Exactly where was he hysterical and calling it "the work of the devil"? Seems like you're the one who needs to chill out.

The fanboys here are worse than the kids on Xbox live, seriously.

Great. Take the easy way out and boil it down to a fanboi issue.

I came out and said you guys had a point, for goodness sake! I just mocked the overblown drama. The overblown ragging on PBEM, especially on account of it is not being TCP, is easily mockable. So I mocked it.

[noxnoctum]

The only thing that comes close to raging in this thread is you and the original post, which was a bit over the top though I agree with it completely.

[Medex]

Three cheers for PBEM.

Hip Hip Hooray..Hip Hip Hooray..Hip"Hic" Hooray..

[Elmar Bijlsma]

The only thing that comes close to raging in this thread is you and the original post, which was a bit over the top though I agree with it completely.

Oops, mean to say "ragging". Corrected.

Really? You thought my post was raging? Sorry, but with the best will in the world I can't make that of it. Seems to me the people so big on being free to offer criticism and mature conversation are less keen having that same standard applied to them.

[LemoN]

The overblown raging on PBEM, especially on account of it is not being TCP, is easily mockable.

And PBEM being more fitting to the mid-late 90's rather than the 2000's, let alone 2011 isn't?

[Gryphonne]

Medex, it would be nice if you had anything constructive to add to the thread instead of oil to a burning building :')

Regardless, we should just all calm the frack down, take a deep breath and discuss this in a normal manner. While the tone of the first post may have been over the top. I do agree with the points made. I hope we can get some devs to add their point of view

Truth is, I will find it very hard to enjoy RT MP and i really don't have the time/feel like it to play PBEM. I've played the demo scenario with the bocage from the German side, and the amount of microing you need to do on all fronts is *intense*, I simply can't see myself pulling that off against a human opponent. And this is from someone who made the top 3 in the C&C1 ranking back in the days, and is still a frantic RTS/FPS twitch crowd gamer these days. I've always played CM for it's calm yet intense environment, not for its spastic nature.

And to all those people saying the AI doesn't bore you, trust me, it does. It bores the bollocks out of me after a while. It's fun, but it isn't *fun*. It's nowhere near the excitement of a battle vs humans when on the defence/meeting engagement. I could pubstomp the AI time after time again in order to achieve major victories on the defence in CM in all honesty, and this is no exaggeration. Being on the offense against the AI is harder, but not infinitely harder. And even then it boils down to how well the scenario designer placed the units for the AI in the first place.

[noxnoctum]

Same here, and I play SC2 which is arguably even more fast paced than CnC, at least in ladder matches.

[Gryphonne]

Having given this some more thought, I've come to the conclusion that it isn't necessarily the amount of units that creates the problem, but the amount of information that you have to process, which exponentially increases as you add more units to the fray. And as much as I hate to say it, this does cultivate the "korean-gamer-teen" phenomenon.

For instance, two players with a company each. One person (A) can control a single platoon in detail before he loses view of the amount of info presented, the other person ( can control the entire company in detail. Naturally, person B is much more likely to win as he can quickly click his way through a complex battle plan involving attacks from several sides. Whereas person A will get overrun by the amount of info that he has to process all of a sudden. Here, the player with the quickest clicking/response time will win (sorry old timers, you're at a disadvantage here). This might be completely reversed in a wego environment because player A might be a far more proficient player on the defence/offense when he has time to process all the info presented to him. So here, the better player would win (like it should be IMHO).

While strictly pausable RT solves only part of the problem, it does give a much better hybrid with some breathing space every minute or so

[Sirocco]

There's a lot to be said for long drawn out PBEM's.

But a system which integrates RT with pausing and rewind should fix so many issues and make it flexible enough to appeal to everyone.

[Other Means]

I agree it'd be nice. The main issue is the last CMBN PBEM I played the turns were 18Mb.

It's a LOT of data to be shunting round. Think of when you make a save, how long it takes, then factor in transmission time plus loading at the other end.

I think they'd be better served building in an email client so PBEM turns can be sent automatically. Wouldn't be quite the same, but it'd make the process quicker.

[noxnoctum]

^^^That would be a nice stopgap for wego tcp-ip. Great idea!

Even if RT with autopause is implemented, I'd still want wego for REALLY big battles.

[Lets_All_Fight]

I agree it'd be nice. The main issue is the last CMBN PBEM I played the turns were 18Mb.

Really? Wow. I think the biggest I've seen is about 7. Mind you, I rarely play scenarios with more than a reinforced company on either side.

[Sgt Joch]

Tcp WEGO.

This issue was discussed ad nauseum when CMSF came out.

Bottom line: there are many technical and commercial reasons why it is not included in CMSF and CMBN.

Will it be in a future title ? Who knows, but it is pretty much at the bottom of the wish list.

[Pandur]

i feel with the thread starter, i can remember as i had to find out that there is no TCP/IP WEGO in CMSF(was not clearly advertised in my eyes). i also remember steve saying that TCP/IP WEGO will never ever make it in with replay, at least that is the latest news i have. man did i feel cheated in a way.

i tried several RT games in CMSF, wasnt enjoyable at all, also i desperately tried to start a PBEM because i missed multiplayer so much but it was too tiring to play more then a few turns. and there i was with a single player only game that could be "the friggin bomb" with TCP/IP WEGO with replay, it did hurt to see the game fail so badly.

now to me the CM myth is about as dead as it gets. if i end up buying normandy is still a 50/50 chance, if i will, probably to play around with the editor a little and crank out some non bocage maps.

anyways, CM is no longer a "buy it for sure" game to me. single player only does not cut it for me in the long run.

however, i stick around, also if i could move on compleatly and forgett about CM but at the same time i cant, i had so many great houers with CMx1 and also to some extent with CMSF while i was still thinking TCP/IP WEGO with replay could make it in, i cant let that go no matter how hard i try.

what a sorry state i am in

enough whining for today.

[Magpie_Oz]

Really? Wow. I think the biggest I've seen is about 7. Mind you, I rarely play scenarios with more than a reinforced company on either side.

Seems to have more to do with the map for some reason.

"British Mettle" is 40 to 50 Mb "USMC - Bad Moon Rising" is about 25 to 28 and it only has a dozen tanks per side. Both maps are fairly large.

[Sgt Joch]

Really? Wow. I think the biggest I've seen is about 7. Mind you, I rarely play scenarios with more than a reinforced company on either side.

I played a CMSF tournament PBEM game last year on a 2x2 km map with a battalion. Each turn file was 40-45 mb. But it was very playable and we finished the game (100 turns) with no technical issues.

[BigJ62]

Well using DropBox or something like it to exchange files would help especially if you have a fat pipe so 20 -30mb would not take that long. Also using Skype for video/voice while playing would keep things interesting.