Trees+wind= massive FPS drop

[ParaBellum]

As discussed in the "performance" thread the moving trees in windy weather conditions cause a massive performance drop on my system (core i5-2500k @4 GHz, NVidia GTX 470 (1280MB VRAM), 8 Gig Corsair RAM in dual-channel mode, Win7 64 bit. Latest official Nvidia drivers. FSAA and AF set to application control. No unnecessary programs are running in the background.).

I'm running the game @1920x1080 res at max details.

I noticed this when I compared FPS of similar scenes in the "Busting the Bocage" scenario (no wind):

with the "Closing the Gap" scenario (wind):

I then created a test map and checked FPS without wind:

and again with wind:

[ParaBellum]

Since I was terribly bored I then set up a comparison from exactly the same position in game (start location in the 3d world plus 9 mousewheel clicks 'up'):

No wind:

Wind:

Result: wind makes the game basically unplayable from a "ground view" in wooded terrain on my system.

BFC, fix or do sumfink!

BTW I totally love the game, awesome job guys.

[Wiggum]

I also get this FPS drop with trees + medium or stron wind.

I have a ATI 4870 with the new drivers, Win7 and a strong CPU (4x3.2Ghz) and 4GM RAM.

Without stronger wind (only gentle wind for example) i get 40+ FPS even while scrolling through a forest.

But as soon as wind is at least medium i can see a massive FPS drop making the game unplayable !

[AstroCat]

Same here. HUGE drop with wind I went from 57 down to 11 on a test map I set up! That's from no wind to heavy wind. That's bigger than the 20+ fps drop on average from shadows.

So wind animations and shadows are the too huge fps killers for me.

[Pandur]

anyone found a way to turn off the swaying trees? after all its just eye candy so this could be made "toggle-able". i would not need it at all and it makes the demo performance worse for me(Pocket scenario for example) then CMSF maps of much larger size.

and my system isnt so bad, i can play better looking games just fine but this swaying trees are overkill.

[Peregrine]

Battlefront may be able to improve framerates they may not.

From reading the above posts and tinkering with my own settings I get comparable results. 2G ram, dual core E6600 overclocked to 3.1Ghz and a GTX9800+.

From reading the other posts people with lesser specced machines also seem to have similar performance.

I would brace yourself for this is just the way it is.

Considering the demo scenario with the wind only seemed to use 350MB ram anyway I doubt having more than 2Gig ram will make much difference anyway unless your system is swapping for some other reason or the demo has nasty memory leaks.

[ParaBellum]

I doubt the FPS drop is related to RAM or CPU power. It seems to be a rendering problem.

I really hope this can be fixed, because otherwise scenarios in windy conditions will be a pain to play.

A simple fix like disabling/lowering the movement of trees in heavy winds would already make me more than happy.

[Peregrine]

Sort of my point. The FPS drop is probably part of the graphics engine. Unrelated to particularly high spec/low spec machine, nvidia or ati or other graphics card.

Battlefront may or may not view this as a problem.

Also unless you implicitly understand how everything is designed and works there is no such thing as a "simple fix". It may be a simple to introduce an option to stop trees waving or it may not be possible without big effort.

[ParaBellum]

Hehe... yeah, I know, when non-programmers talk about "simple fixes" and "they just need to" the programmers probably want to take out their baseball bats.

Still, I hope such a "simple fix" (opposed to "we will rewrite the rendering engine" or "we will create totally new trees") will be possible.

[Ranger33]

I have taken to playing with the "half-trees" option since it massively improves performance and lets you see a lot better, but then sometimes I forget the trees are even there and can have a major effect on LOS. It also takes away from the immersion quite a bit when you switch back to full trees and realize what you aren't seeing.

A toggle for "Swaying Trees" would be really nice, since they look great but usually I'm moving the camera around too fast to actually notice them moving all that much.

[Peregrine]

Hehe... yeah, I know, when non-programmers talk about "simple fixes" and "they just need to" the programmers probably want to take out their baseball bats.

Still, I hope such a "simple fix" (opposed to "we will rewrite the rendering engine" or "we will create totally new trees") will be possible.

For sure when it comes to "simple fixes". Typically in most organisations there is a layer between programmers and customers so things can be kept civil.

[easytarget]

I have taken to playing with the "half-trees" option since it massively improves performance and lets you see a lot better, but then sometimes I forget the trees are even there and can have a major effect on LOS. It also takes away from the immersion quite a bit when you switch back to full trees and realize what you aren't seeing.

A toggle for "Swaying Trees" would be really nice, since they look great but usually I'm moving the camera around too fast to actually notice them moving all that much.

If not too difficult to implement, this would be a good soln. As he said, panning around the whole times it's nearly impossible to notice the "swaying trees" and it's killing FPS.

[Wiggum]

So all people here feel the FPS drop with trees+wind...

I hope there will be a official respond soon, maybe they already trying to fix it ?

[Peregrine]

Battlefront will need to think it is broken first.

[LJFHutch]

Yeah the drop is pretty immense, like 75% for me.

[AstroCat]

A "fix" would be best but maybe a toggle would help if there is no way to improve performance.

[Wiggum]

Anyway, Battlefront has to do something...

A 50-75% FPS drop just by a wind effect is way too much !

[Soldat-Hans]

how to toggle the tree wind?

[Sgt Joch]

We have discussed this issue internally and here are a few comments:

1. Wind has little CPU usage and causes little FPS hit. What is happening with wind is that your card is redrawing the trees and leaves more often which could have an impact, although that is usually more consistent. However we have not seen the massive shift Parabellum is experiencing. It could be caused by a particular combination of CPU, graphic card, drivers, etc.

2. I ran some tests with trees, no trees, wind, no wind. Even when looking directly at swaying trees filling my screen at best/best, 1920x1200, the FPS is almost consistently between 15-20, and my system is less powerful than Parabellum's (Q9550@3.1 ghz, ATI 4890, win 7 64).

3. CM has never produced very high FPS. In almost all scenarios I play in CMSF or CMBN, the FPS when I check it is mostly in the 15-25 range. However, in actual gameplay, the raw FPS number has never been has important as the fluidity and smoothness of the image. I have only played one game where the FPS was so low that the image was choppy and unplayable and that was a CMSF PBEM game on a massive Urban map.

4. If you want to consistently increase FPS, one tip is to drop model/texture quality. Going from best/best to balanced/balanced gives me a consistent 10 FPS increase on a forested map with little noticeable decrease in model quality.

[Wiggum]

We have discussed this issue internally and here are a few comments:

1. Wind has little CPU usage and causes little FPS hit. What is happening with wind is that your card is redrawing the trees and leaves more often which could have an impact, although that is usually more consistent. However we have not seen the massive shift Parabellum is experiencing. It could be caused by a particular combination of CPU, graphic card, drivers, etc.

Its not only Parabellum, i would estimate that more then 50% will have this issue.

Then there must be some problem with the code, no way the redrawing of the trees and leaves can cause a 50% FPS drop...

Anyway, is this a official Battlefront comment ?

2. I ran some tests with trees, no trees, wind, no wind. Even when looking directly at swaying trees filling my screen at best/best, 1920x1200, the FPS is almost consistently between 15-20, and my system is less powerful than Parabellum's (Q9550@3.1 ghz, ATI 4890, win 7 64).

Ok, do you have Fraps ?

Can you do some screenshots please ?

Did you make a test map full ov trees and looked at the FPS with no wind and then with strong wind ?

Even if you get 20 FPS with strong wind, if you have 40 without it this is still a 50% FPS drop by this wind effect.

Way to much if you ask me and a real issue that should get fixed.

[ParaBellum]

Thanks Sgt Joch, good to hear this issue got some attention.

For the problem being caused by a certain combination of hardware/drivers IMO already too many people have reported the same issue. Basically everyone of my gaming buddies (all five ) reports exactly the same problem, but they don't post here.

And while I agree that FPS in general are not that important in a game like CM:N, FPS below 10 on hi-ish end systems are IMO a problem since moving the viewpoint and issuing commands feels like wading through molasses.

If the problem runs deeper in the engine I'd love to see a toggle switch for tree movement.

[Sgt Joch]

Its not only Parabellum, i would estimate that more then 50% will have this issue.

Then there must be some problem with the code, no way the redrawing of the trees and leaves can cause a 50% FPS drop...

Anyway, is this a official Battlefront comment ?

It is just my personal comments to try to help out. Only BFC can make official comments.

If it turns out that tons of player are finding the game unplayable because of this issue, BFC will have to decide if they have to delay the release for 6-12 months to recode the entire game.

[Sgt Joch]

Thanks Sgt Joch, good to hear this issue got some attention.

For the problem being caused by a certain combination of hardware/drivers IMO already too many people have reported the same issue. Basically everyone of my gaming buddies (all five ) reports exactly the same problem, but they don't post here.

And while I agree that FPS in general are not that important in a game like CM:N, FPS below 10 on hi-ish end systems are IMO a problem since moving the viewpoint and issuing commands feels like wading through molasses.

If the problem runs deeper in the engine I'd love to see a toggle switch for tree movement.

Just because we dont reply to every thread does not mean we are not paying attention. :)The issue is being looked at, but no decision yet on what to do about it.

[ParaBellum]

Good to hear that.

Thanks.

[BigJ62]

Didn't post fast enough.

nm

I'm seeing the exact same problem with wind so no it is not just Parabellum.

I've got a decent machine and when it trys to draw a scence with lots of trees and wind the fps drops like a rock.

cpu 980x

video GTX580

mem 12GB