Brits?

[Magpie_Oz]

As long as XXX Corps doesn't run into 88s by the side of the road blowing their leads tanks to kingdom come. That would simply turn it into a re-run.

Never know, the 82nd might not make a bollocks of it this time.

[Aldaros]

Does a Market Garden module mean that no Brit Airborne will be introduced until this module? No module needs a previous module to play, so it will have to offer something that's not in any previous module while not requiring any previous one to play. This will mean no SS either I imagine? Of course it could be a building/terrain module I suppose?

6th Airborne Division dropped into Normandy, and stayed there far longer than either the 82nd or 101st Airborne Divisions, so I don't see why they wouldn't be in the British/Commonwealth module. It was 1st Airborne Division that dropped around Arnhem, not 6th Airborne, so they probably had a (slightly) different TOE during Market Garden. The Brit module could give you the 6th Airborne TOE for June through August, and Market Garden would then give you 1st Airborne's TOE for September. The 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions could be treated the same way. Ditto any other relevant units (XXX Corps, Fallschirmjaeger, etc.).

And yes, I believe it's already been stated already that part of the Market Garden module is the necessary terrain and buildings for the Netherlands.

[Magpie_Oz]

6th Airborne Division dropped into Normandy, and stayed there far longer than either the 82nd or 101st Airborne Divisions, so I don't see why they wouldn't be in the British/Commonwealth module. It was 1st Airborne Division that dropped around Arnhem, not 6th Airborne, so they probably had a (slightly) different TOE during Market Garden. The Brit module could give you the 6th Airborne TOE for June through August, and Market Garden would then give you 1st Airborne's TOE for September. The 9th and 10th SS Panzer Divisions could be treated the same way. Ditto any other relevant units (XXX Corps, Fallschirmjaeger, etc.).

And yes, I believe it's already been stated already that part of the Market Garden module is the necessary terrain and buildings for the Netherlands.

I guess the thing is if you put the Paras in the module containing the other Commonwealth forces that were in Normandy you have to do a complete make over of the uniforms etc for the graphics and you also have to add in things like the Tetrach tank etc which starts to make the module maybe a bit bigger that BFC are wanting?

I.e. the diffrence between a UK, Canadian and Polish soldier is the accent and shoulder patch. Difference between UK Inf and Para is a totally different uniform.

[clicheman]

Well then why don't you just choose the Brits (when it comes out) and imagine. After all the structure will be similar.

The equipment though would be way off (at least for any Aust troops).

Yes but it would be great to have some differences like maybe a moral bonus for Maori Battalion troops. Certainly different 'skins' would be great.

Also the quipment list would just HAVE to include the 'famous' beaverette.

Imagine sending a squad of them up against the Jerries!!

Cheers

[Aldaros]

I guess the thing is if you put the Paras in the module containing the other Commonwealth forces that were in Normandy you have to do a complete make over of the uniforms etc for the graphics and you also have to add in things like the Tetrach tank etc which starts to make the module maybe a bit bigger that BFC are wanting?

Considering there were only 20 or so Tetrachs, and they were largely ineffective, I don't see why they'd have to be added. The Tetrach sounds like a perfect candidate for the random stuff module. 6th Airborne played a key role holding the British left flank during the first few days of the invasion, so leaving them out would be a pretty significant cut. And while the infantry models would need to change, and new TOEs be created, the weapons and equipment would largely stay the same.

Besides, according to Steve they're adding SS and Fallschirmjaeger in the British module; those are about different as British airborne and regular infantry, so I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption that 6th Airborne also be included. And since pretty much everything he confirms there for this first module will also appear during Market Garden (British armoured, SS, and Fallschirmjaeger units), the issue GSX brings up isn't restricted to just British airborne divisions.

[Magpie_Oz]

Besides, according to Steve they're adding SS and Fallschirmjaeger in the British module; those are about different as British airborne and regular infantry, so I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption.

But that is exactly the point, where do you stop adding things? BFC have decided to stop with the regular infantry on the Allied side and the SS and FJ on the axis side it seems, other things in other modules.

[Aldaros]

But that is exactly the point, where do you stop adding things? BFC have decided to stop with the regular infantry on the Allied side and the SS and FJ on the axis side it seems, other things in other modules.

Ah, I hadn't heard that there wouldn't be any British armoured units. In that case, I'd have to agree that British airborne are less likely. Although I still don't think it's quite as difficult as you suggest, seeing as they'd have almost no heavy equipment or combat vehicles of their own; aside from Jeeps, light artillery, and the mostly worthless Tetrach, anything they did have would have been attached, rather than organic to the division (and therefore wouldn't actually be airborne).

Any chance of a link to the no armor statement? Makes it sound like the next module is really the SS/Fallschirmjaeger module, with some Commonwealth infantry thrown in for good measure.

[Magpie_Oz]

Ah, I hadn't heard that there wouldn't be any British armoured units.

I didn't say that, only talking about the infantry in the module.

[GSX]

My point remains that if you don't brew the contents of one Module to play another Module, then what will you need to play an Arnhem module? The argument that it was a different airborne division or SS one doesn't work because by that time we will already have had airborne and SS units.

Therefore, it makes sense to not have Brit airborne in the next module. The precedent is already there for this as we don't have German airborne in the CMBN base game and they were pretty much involved in action against US forces. I'm not even sure if they actually fought the Brits in Normandy.

The question would remain, how can you fight Arnhem without the SS?

[Aldaros]

I didn't say that, only talking about the infantry in the module.

Okay, so again, where has BFC discussed this? The only (vaguely) relevant threads I can find that mentioned British airborne at all are a thread on the inclusion of the Poles, which contains nothing from BFC on airborne, and another thread on the future titles, which simply includes modules names. There's certainly an argument for leaving them out until Market Garden, and if they are under consideration for the first module, I'm sure they're close to (or at) the top of the "list of things to cut first if we start running out of time."

You seem quite convinced that they've been cut already or were never going to be included. What I'm asking is, are you basing this on specific comments on airborne units by BFC (and if so, please let me know where I can find said comments), or on conjecture based on their comments on other related topics (e.g. including the Poles)?

[JonS]

Yes but it would be great to have some differences like maybe a moral bonus for Maori Battalion troops. Certainly different 'skins' would be great.

Also the quipment list would just HAVE to include the 'famous' beaverette.

Imagine sending a squad of them up against the Jerries!!

Cheers

PH3@R TEH SEMPLE!

[clicheman]

Awesome photo! Were they based on a bulldozer chassis?

Do I see corrugated iron amour plating?

I can imagine the crack panzer units quaking in their boots right now.

Cheers

[Magpie_Oz]

You seem quite convinced that they've been cut already or were never going to be included. What I'm asking is, are you basing this on specific comments on airborne units by BFC (and if so, please let me know where I can find said comments), or on conjecture based on their comments on other related topics (e.g. including the Poles)?

Who knows, ask BFC direct I guess.

One thing tho' is that the statement has been made that one module will not rely on another, so that should mean that the Market Garden Module will not rely on the Commonwealth module, I don't see how that is possible really but if that is the case it would mean the US, UK and Polish Airborne are in the MG module. Not sure what you do about XXX Corps though.

[Magpie_Oz]

I can imagine the crack panzer units quaking in their boots right now.

From laughter ?

[clicheman]

From what I understand it was called the 'Bob Semple' tank.

Nz's answer to the Panther.

Highly effective against....

[Magpie_Oz]

Highly effective against....

Herds of Sheep

[Zatoichi]

I'm pretty sure the sheep could out run them.

[GreenAsJade]

I'm obliged, sire. Any idea when it's coming?

WRG312

[Michael Emrys]

Were they based on a bulldozer chassis?

Tracked farm tractor IIRC.

Do I see corrugated iron amour plating?

I think that was angle iron welded together. Okay for stopping the small caliber light arms of the Japanese, but not likely to work against anything more serious. Remember, this was a desperate improvisation intended to resist a possible Japanese invasion of NZ. It would have been better than no mobile AFVs at all, if only marginally. I wouldn't have wanted to be manning one after the Japanese brought any AT guns ashore though, and they would have been artillery magnets too.

Michael

[GSX]

You seem quite convinced that they've been cut already or were never going to be included. What I'm asking is, are you basing this on specific comments on airborne units by BFC (and if so, please let me know where I can find said comments), or on conjecture based on their comments on other related topics (e.g. including the Poles)?

Oh Im not convinced, Im just thinking logically. If BFC are going to make an Arnhem Module they need to put something in it. Logically then, it cannot be SS as they are in Module 1. If the Brit Airborne are included in Module 1, then what does that leave to attract anyone to an Arnhem module that a scenario designer cannot already make?

So if one module does not require another to play it, what would that leave? Some terrain and building changes? Which leads me to believe that sense would mean leaving the Brit Airborne out until Module 2, though Im still not sure how you can play Arnhem without SS units.

Unless of course SS units also get included in that Module as well. Which again makes sense to me.

[Michael Emrys]

Unless of course SS units also get included in that Module as well. Which again makes sense to me.

Me too since it would require little or no additional work to bring them in. Same for the non-Airbourne Brit units in the game. The US Airborne units would require a modicum of TO&E work, but otherwise are substantially the same.

Michael

[womble]

Oh Im not convinced, Im just thinking logically. If BFC are going to make an Arnhem Module they need to put something in it. Logically then, it cannot be SS as they are in Module 1. If the Brit Airborne are included in Module 1, then what does that leave to attract anyone to an Arnhem module that a scenario designer cannot already make?

So if one module does not require another to play it, what would that leave? Some terrain and building changes? Which leads me to believe that sense would mean leaving the Brit Airborne out until Module 2, though Im still not sure how you can play Arnhem without SS units.

Unless of course SS units also get included in that Module as well. Which again makes sense to me.

Just because something has been introduced in one module doesn't mean it can't be repeated in a subsequent one. For MG to work, you'd need lots of 'Commonwealth' assets that would be mandatory for the 'Commonwealth' module. If you don't need the 'Commonwealth' module to use the MG module, then, unless none of the relevant units/equipment/TOEs etc had no significant overlap with 'what went before', there will have to be some overlap in material provided.

Which is just fine with me.

[mjkerner]

Steve or someone at BFC has said elsewhere that the major work for the Arnhem module was the buildings, terrain and TO&E. Don't forget that American paratroopers will need different uniforms, too. So it's quite possible that British paras could be in the Commonwealth module and there would still be alot of things to go into Market Garden. Bicycles maybe???

[para]

Never know, the 82nd might not make a bollocks of it this time.

ssshh don't you know it failed because of the british and nothing else

[GSX]

Just because something has been introduced in one module doesn't mean it can't be repeated in a subsequent one. For MG to work, you'd need lots of 'Commonwealth' assets that would be mandatory for the 'Commonwealth' module. If you don't need the 'Commonwealth' module to use the MG module, then, unless none of the relevant units/equipment/TOEs etc had no significant overlap with 'what went before', there will have to be some overlap in material provided.

Which is just fine with me.

I agree. I'm just going on what was said about the Module system. That using one module doesn't require you to have another one. Therefore the MG module shouldnt need anything that is in Module 1 (CW) to run it. But, seeing as there have to be Brit Airborne in it, it would be a smart and sensible move to leave these out of the CW module.

However, its BFs game and system and they can change it to whatever they fancy and so perhaps a pre-requisite for MG would be CW.

No biggie though as Im sure everyone will get every Module.