Will the Draw distance be fixed in Normandy ?

[Wiggum]

Hi,

maybe your remember the ugly draw distance problem in CM: Shock Force.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=90147

Trees disapperar at some distance and suddenly popping up if you scroll forward.

So you are thinking: "WTF why is there a forest...".

Really, this issue has make me stopp playing for a while and because it was not fixed in NATO i did not bought it.

Now, in Normandy there are much more trees and objects i would think.

If this problem would be still there, it would be a pain playing this...

So the Normandy game looks just awsome !

But, will this issue finally be fixed ?

[Gryphonne]

Hi,

maybe your remember the ugly draw distance problem in CM: Shock Force.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=90147

Trees disapperar at some distance and suddenly popping up if you scroll forward.

So you are thinking: "WTF why is there a forest...".

Really, this issue has make me stopp playing for a while and because it was not fixed in NATO i did not bought it.

Now, in Normandy there are much more trees and objects i would think.

If this problem would be still there, it would be a pain playing this...

So the Normandy game looks just awsome !

But, will this issue finally be fixed ?

IIRC, Steve mentioned that they had a new way of drawing foliage so they may have finally fixed it. I sure hope they did anyway, because trees are such a prominent feature of the European setting. Furthermore, CMx1 handled trees very elegantly and I really want that feature back, you could zoom out all the way and with max draw/horizon distance you could see woods and trees way up ahead.

[Volltreffer]

I surely hope so... I have wanted this fixed for ages...!!!

The immersion factor will be greatly improved with new trees and adjustable draw distances.

[c3k]

That would be great. Often, in CMSF, I will look at a hill and base some fire and maneuver plan on the appearance of the hill. Then, when I go closer, a forest springs up on it... No more bare hill. No more plan. Now I zoom and boom all over the map constantly before and during a game so I have a constant view of the vegetation.

The screenies released show some very nice leafies. It's looking very nice.

One niggle: it seems that crop circles are still with us. That's a very preliminary impression based on the screenshots. It's minor, but I would love to see that affect get dropped.

Ken

[Volltreffer]

One niggle: it seems that crop circles are still with us. That's a very preliminary impression based on the screenshots.

Ken

What screenshot gave you that impression...?

I have yet to see a pic from any elevation, only ground level - and thats where you cannot see the crop circles...

[c3k]

My apologies for posting links instead of embedded pictures. It's my lack of computer skill. (If you'd like to tell me how to embed a linked picture, feel free to do so!)

Now, let's recognize I'm only posting this to support my statement upstream. THIS IS MINOR!!! There is a lot of criticism on these forums: some is constructive, a lot is, um, not. Please don't take this as a springboard to decry the graphics as being ruined. They are not. Everything I can see and read about CM:BN is fabulous. Anyway, here are the links, as promised.

Gallery 12 of 39: The PzIV coming out of the courtyard: notice that all the taller grass "doodads" are perpendicular to the viewpoint? That, to me, indicates the presence of crop circles.

Gallery 13 of 39: Notice the grain in the mid-distance. Again, all the grain "sheafs" are at a right angle to the viewer.

Gallery 26 of 39: This is the one which really shows it. Notice the grass around the (beautiful) mortar.

Again, this is only to show support for my contention that the released screenshots show evidence of crop circles. It does not mean it will be like that in the final release, or if it is, that it is a problem.

Ken

[Lethaface]

How to embed pictures:

just right click a picture and select 'open in new tab', text depending on which browser you are using. Now select the URL (ending in .jpg for example) and put that in the following tags (IMG)url(/IMG) (replace ()'s for []'s).

For example:

[c3k]

Hmmm, I've done that with jpg's I've uploaded to photobucket, but how do I do that with the images in BF.C's Normandy Gallery? (The right click options in the images do not allow 'open in new tab'.)

Thanks,

Ken

[Lethaface]

Made an example above here

The trick for the gallery's is to select 'view image' (FF) directly from the gallery so that it opens the picture (not the generated thumbnail) in a new tab.

[MikeyD]

The tree draw distance was fixed long ago. If you can't locate a screenshot that may be because we only got distance LODs of trees that everyone was happy just last week. Believe me, everyone is happy

About 'crop circles', in my opinion that's the biggest 'non-bug'. I cannot understand your fixation with them. Would you prefer individual blades of grass placed one at a time? Hozontal rows? CMx1-style grass Xs littering the landscape?

[LongLeftFlank]

Keep in mind also that when mapmakers put trees on the desert terrain of CMSF, they didn't generally bother to change the underlying terrain tile. A few folks did take the time to do "orchards" with distinct flooring.

A NW Europe "forest floor" tile is certainly not going to resemble a default open ground or grass (fern, pine needles, fallen trees). So even if the trees are removed at a distance to save memory at lower end graphics settings, it should be readily distinguishable (darker) from open ground. Or at least that's how it seems to me it ought to work.

[Gryphonne]

The tree draw distance was fixed long ago. If you can't locate a screenshot that may be because we only got distance LODs of trees that everyone was happy just last week. Believe me, everyone is happy

About 'crop circles', in my opinion that's the biggest 'non-bug'. I cannot understand your fixation with them. Would you prefer individual blades of grass placed one at a time? Hozontal rows? CMx1-style grass Xs littering the landscape?

Well, in CMSF the leafs on trees were crop circles too, when viewed from the top. At least the foliage seemed to rotate with the point of view AFAIR. In CMBN however the trees and foliage are "modelled" along "two (or more) axis", which supposedly would mean they have more volume (from a distance) to them and do not shift with the view point. Is this correct? I hope you can understand my explanation anyway, it's a bit difficult to use clear terms..

So while the trees in CMSF are more complex from a close distance, the trees in CMBN seem to have more volume when viewed from a distance; look almost as good up close and my guess is that the render is probably a lot more efficient too (=higher framerates)?

[c3k]

The tree draw distance was fixed long ago. If you can't locate a screenshot that may be because we only got distance LODs of trees that everyone was happy just last week. Believe me, everyone is happy

About 'crop circles', in my opinion that's the biggest 'non-bug'. I cannot understand your fixation with them. Would you prefer individual blades of grass placed one at a time? Hozontal rows? CMx1-style grass Xs littering the landscape?

First, I think many of us will be VERY glad to hear about the tree draw distance. Very glad indeed.

The 'crop circles' is indeed a very "non" non-bug. It is so minute as to barely warrant mention. My crop circle comments should not imply a fixation, merely an observation.

Individual blades of grass? Very cool idea. Imagine the grain being mowed down my MG42 fire. Dynamically clear LOS due to firelanes? I like where you're going... Sunflower fields in the Ukraine in the summer, say, around late June...

Obviously that would be a tremendous CPU hit, or so I presume. No, the reason I even mentioned crop circles was because it is often associated with the LOD draw distance issue. The most jarring aspect of the crop circle phenomenom is the MOTION of the doodads as they continuously rotate whenever the camera is moving.

As I mentioned earlier, I certainly hope a discussion about this would not take away from the positive aspects of all the beautifully rendered models and terrain. (Just compare it to the screenshot from CMBO in another thread to see the differences!)

Thanks,

Ken

[Thomm]

So while the trees in CMSF are more complex from a close distance, the trees in CMBN seem to have more volume when viewed from a distance; look almost as good up close and my guess is that the render is probably a lot more efficient too (=higher framerates)?

I think that as a rule of thumb the maps in CM:SF are larger because of the open spaces in the desert. I shall try to see if I can "break" the tree renderer with a heavily forested test map. On "standard" CM:N maps, it works pretty well so far. But these things are really still very much subject to improvement and optimization.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Thomm]

The vegetation doodads certainly are not the strongest point of the CMx2 engine.

And one of the reasons (and I guess this is what c3k implies, too) is that they are too big. I compared them to the ArmA ones recently and came to the conclusion that ArmA uses very much the same technology, but the size of the doodads is only about one third of the one of the CM:BN ones. This gives a more natural look.

Best regards,

Thomm

[panzermartin]

"we only got distance LODs of trees that everyone was happy just last week. Believe me, everyone is happy" I like how this sounds MikeyD

I think CMSF engine was capable of drawing pleasant landscapes and some maps were really great to look at. If trees/foliage are going to look better then all is left is making the roads bend and we have solved the eye candy department(oh and some better flames/smoke)

[Gryphonne]

I think that as a rule of thumb the maps in CM:SF are larger because of the open spaces in the desert. I shall try to see if I can "break" the tree renderer with a heavily forested test map. On "standard" CM:N maps, it works pretty well so far. But these things are really still very much subject to improvement and optimization.

Best regards,

Thomm

What would you define as a standard map for CMBN though? In size that is. And how much of that is foliage do you estimate; in comparison to CMSF?

[Thomm]

What would you define as a standard map for CMBN though? In size that is. And how much of that is foliage do you estimate; in comparison to CMSF?

Sorry, but these questions are too specific for me to answer (NDA).

Best regards,

Thomm

[Gryphonne]

Sorry, but these questions are too specific for me to answer (NDA).

Best regards,

Thomm

I understand Thanks in any case, maybe Steve can answer?

[Michael Emrys]

What would you define as a standard map for CMBN though? In size that is. And how much of that is foliage do you estimate; in comparison to CMSF?

Given that most of the action covered by BN is in bocage country, I would guess that the maps would tend to be small and heavily foliaged. But that all depends on what the scenario makers wish to do.

Michael

[sfhand]

The crop circles are a dead give-away. While Steve has seemed forthcoming about the BF roadmap, the crop circles are evidence he has been hiding something. Apparently CM:SL will be a fictional invasion set on the planet earth. Mutilated cattle and tinfoil hats will also be modeled. They probably haven't announced yet due to internal disagreement about the time period - WW2 or Modern.

[Michael Emrys]

If it's WW II they had better include the foo fighters. Otherwise, the whining will be deafening.

Michael

[Thomm]

Okay, here I am back with real-world data.

Set up a 2000 m x 2000 m map fully covered by trees, but otherwise flat and featureless. One tree was placed on each tile. To make the test more meaningful I put a reinforced US company on the map and ran it into two companies of Germans.

The game remained playable and all trees were drawn at all times.

I have a fairly new middle class laptop: Intel Core I5, 4 GB RAM, GTX 285M.

Best regards,

Thomm

[Gryphonne]

Okay, here I am back with real-world data.

Set up a 2000 m x 2000 m map fully covered by trees, but otherwise flat and featureless. One tree was placed on each tile. To make the test more meaningful I put a reinforced US company on the map and ran it into two companies of Germans.

The game remained playable and all trees were drawn at all times.

I have a fairly new middle class laptop: Intel Core I5, 4 GB RAM, GTX 285M.

Best regards,

Thomm

That is pretty impressive. By playable you mean no real stutters and generally smooth? If so it seems to run smoother than CMSF even despite it being unpolished.

[MikeyD]

you mean no real stutters and generally smooth?

That's what he means. Charles is a miracle worker