Fisrt floor windows

[weapon2010]

Should'nt squads be allowed to go through first floor windows when there is no door available or even if there is a door available.

[Wengart]

I believe its not allowed because of UI/pathfinding problems that it may incur, and as a nod towards scenario designers (if he wanted you to leave by the back there would be a door there)

[MikeyD]

I'm relating this only 3rd or 4th hand (and may be remembering it wrong), but I seem to recall someone describing being instructed how to enter a building through windows during combat training. Afterward the instructor said "Now that you know how to do this you should NEVER do it!" I guess the chances of accidentally shooting youself or a comrade, or being shot by someone in the house go up greatly as you're clambering over a window sill.

[Flanker15]

There's a mod somewhere that puts bars on all the first floor window textures specifically for this senario.

[Kat Johnston]

I keep reading the thread title and thinking "first floor? long way to jump..."

Anyone know whether Syria follows European or US convention on floor names?

[vincere]

I'm relating this only 3rd or 4th hand (and may be remembering it wrong), but I seem to recall someone describing being instructed how to enter a building through windows during combat training. Afterward the instructor said "Now that you know how to do this you should NEVER do it!" I guess the chances of accidentally shooting youself or a comrade, or being shot by someone in the house go up greatly as you're clambering over a window sill.

Maybe; but if you're pinned and need to get out the back and it's only windows, it'll be windows rather than a door that's being supressed.

[Guest Guest]

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[LongLeftFlank]

As I've ranted about many times, the default CMSF building tile provides entirely too many windows on all sides, especially on ground floors. This makes urban combat unrealistically easy for the higher firepower force, since every building can "see into" a lot of other buildings, making it too easy to converge fires from overwatch. Try it sometime -- have most buildings with windows on just front and back and see just how much harder it is to do block clearing.

Middle Easterners highly value their security and their privacy and generally surround their houses with high walls with locked gates. Those who do not, keep their ground floor windows securely shuttered and barred. Shopfronts are the sole exception and they have security grilles and garage doors which they generally shut when expecting fighting. Any open window is therefore immediately suspicious.

[vincere]

As I've ranted about many times, the default CMSF building tile provides entirely too many windows on all sides, especially on ground floors. This makes urban combat unrealistically easy for the higher firepower force, since every building can "see into" a lot of other buildings, making it too easy to converge fires from overwatch. Try it sometime -- have most buildings with windows on just front and back and see just how much harder it is to do block clearing.

Middle Easterners highly value their security and their privacy and generally surround their houses with high walls with locked gates. Those who do not, keep their ground floor windows securely shuttered and barred. Shopfronts are the sole exception and they have security grilles and garage doors which they generally shut when expecting fighting. Any open window is therefore immediately suspicious.

Those are seriously good points. That said not being able to use some of those windows is a limit of the abstraction. However, not ever being able to scale the taller wall bugs me most

[LongLeftFlank]

If I can ever finish a scenario on my Ramadi map, you can find out for yourself. But RL work is heavy right now and then I'm traveling for a month (gameless). So NATO will have to keep you occupied until then.

As to scaling high walls, that's almost the most hazardous movement I can think of in combat while encumbered with a weapon and 70 pounds of gear. I am OK with leaving it out; like defenestration, it's theoretically possible but pretty rare. Room for reasonable folks to disagree on that one.

[vincere]

If I can ever finish a scenario on my Ramadi map, you can find out for yourself. But RL work is heavy right now and then I'm traveling for a month (gameless). So NATO will have to keep you occupied until then.

As to scaling high walls, that's almost the most hazardous movement I can think of in combat while encumbered with a weapon and 70 pounds of gear. I am OK with leaving it out

That's the thing, frustrated doesn't necessarily mean a call that it should be in. Some of the game's frustrations like that mirror those of RL. However, like somebody above said not all of those sort of things would be under fire in CM, or threat of fire, and just because it's dangerouse doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible.

And I'm really looking forward to Ramadi, possibly more than Nato

[scottie]

Can you knock a hole in the wall and traverse your squads through it ? ... its a common tactic for urban assaults (see stalindgrad for example)

[Boche]

Can you knock a hole in the wall and traverse your squads through it ? ... its a common tactic for urban assaults (see stalindgrad for example)

you can know the whole wall down with engeneers/pioneers

[MikeyD]

the default CMSF building tile provides entirely too many windows on all sides, especially on ground floors

It appears several groups have arrived at the same conclusion idependently. You'll notice CM:Afghanistan scenarios love limited-window building compounds. Driving some player a bit crazy attempting MOUT battles, I hear! I can say the window count has dropped noticeably in the NATO module too, depending on which scenario designer worked on what. Windows are like balconies it the game - it took some practice to learn when to use them, and especially when NOT to use them.

[Boche]

I hate balconies

[akd]

Can you knock a hole in the wall and traverse your squads through it ? ... its a common tactic for urban assaults (see stalindgrad for example)

As already stated, any group equipped with demo charges can use the blast command to breach a wall, be it freestanding or part of a building. They can also breach internal walls to move from room to room or from one abutting building to another.

Walls can also be breached by a number of direct fire weapons, but it does not happen reliably with a single shot. Some weapons systems are better than others: the 105mm HE rounds on the Stryker MGS, for example, will usually breach a building wall with one shot.

Hopefully in the future we will have some sort of location-specific graphical representation of a breach/mouse hole rather than the simple destruction of the entire side of the structure, either with new 3D destruction models or perhaps with a texture/transparency representation as with windows and doors.

[Guest Guest]

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[vincere]

Hopefully in the future we will have some sort of location-specific graphical representation of a breach/mouse hole rather than the simple destruction of the entire side of the structure, either with new 3D destruction models or perhaps with a texture/transparency representation as with windows and doors.

That's a nice idea.

Another aspect is being on the roof of a first story abutting a 2 story and those guys go all the way down, out and back up again- doh.

[scottie]

As already stated, any group equipped with demo charges can use the blast command to breach a wall, be it freestanding or part of a building. They can also breach internal walls to move from room to room or from one abutting building to another.

Walls can also be breached by a number of direct fire weapons, but it does not happen reliably with a single shot. Some weapons systems are better than others: the 105mm HE rounds on the Stryker MGS, for example, will usually breach a building wall with one shot.

Hopefully in the future we will have some sort of location-specific graphical representation of a breach/mouse hole rather than the simple destruction of the entire side of the structure, either with new 3D destruction models or perhaps with a texture/transparency representation as with windows and doors.

excellent , that's encouraging , what about a hole in the floor

Ps so if you cant use windows ... blow a hole ! .... doesnt do stealth much good granted ... or if your trying to get out of a small room to the outdoors

[akd]

doesnt do stealth much good granted ... or if your trying to get out of a small room to the outdoors

You can breach with demo charges going out as well. Your men are immune to the blast effects.