Improving spotting performance

[Hairy Pie]

Hi

I was recently playing one of the Brit missions (something like 'Mechanised Assault') and moved my recon units and tanks up onto the biggest hill, so that they could overwatch as I moved the AFV's through the valley. I dismounted the recon troops from their vehicles, and had them crawl to the edge of the hill, and moved the tanks up to the crest as well. This I thought would give me complete observation of the valley and anyone in it, but that was not the case. As soon as I had the tanks in position they started to take ATGM and recoliess rifle hits, but no one spotted any launches!

I re-started the mission and did the same again, but this time gave the units an overlapping arc to try and focus their attention. Same problem, lots of hits but no visible launches.

I could see the direction of where the shot came from and also hear the launch, and so was able to trace them back to the fox hole's etc, and then art'y their asses, but I thought that this was a bit 'gamey'.

Is there a limit on how far a unit can see, even without any smoke etc. obscuring their vision? I would have thought the tanks at least with their enhanced optics would have picked up the launches!

I've read elsewhere that shooting up area's likely to contain the enemy is a good tactic for getting them to reveal themselves, but this was a big map and there were lots of possible enemy locations.

Anyone got any good spotting tips?

[Kat Johnston]

Anyone got any good spotting tips?

When you have them, Javelin CLUs are good for spotters.

Dismounting Scimitar crews can be useful sometimes... obviously not doing much good in this case though.

The Warrior FO vehicles with the big mast don't have any advantage to sight (just better coms), like they probably should - same apparently for similar stuff in the NATO module. AIUI each vehicle traces LOS from some centre point only.

Unbuttoning vehicles is an excellent way to determine where the nearest SVD equipped enemy is. And as before I don't think it alters where the LOS is traced from, so while having a tank commander stick his head out the top may give a better chance to see things, it doesn't increase the area in which they'll be seen.

If you give a plane or helicopter an area target it'll pick out and attack enemies within the area, even if your pixeltruppen can't see them, so you can sometimes pick up on where enemy units are that way.

Um, not sure what else. It does feel a bit myopic sometimes.

[Erwin]

CMSF takes a lot of patience. I find I have to let inf units (preferably with binocs altho' not sure I see any difference) sit for several minutes befiore they start spotting interesting things. Try leaving your inf units to spot for 5 minutes b4 moving up the vehicles.

[Frankster65]

Agreed. In my own experience, you must let the infantry or forward observers have time to scan, look around, search out enemy units. As Erwin has said, give it a few minutes. Think about it...in real life...if you came to a spot, would you expect to see enemy right away, the moment you started using your binoculars? Or, would if be more productive for you to hunker down, and observe areas for movement over time?

[Hairy Pie]

So you're saying that given enough time I should start seeing enemy contacts appear? Is that even if they don't move? I know there are lots of other factors to take into account - size of target, terrain etc.

Oh, and what does a exclamation icon meen, a unit that has surrendered or gone missing?

[Boche]

So you're saying that given enough time I should start seeing enemy contacts appear? Is that even if they don't move? I know there are lots of other factors to take into account - size of target, terrain etc.

Oh, and what does a exclamation icon meen, a unit that has surrendered or gone missing?

they have routed ( run away )

[Erwin]

"...given enough time I should start seeing enemy contacts appear?"

Yes, that is exactly correct.

[Hairy Pie]

"...given enough time I should start seeing enemy contacts appear?"

Yes, that is exactly correct.

Okay, cool. I've just started the mission British Mettle and positioned a fair bit of infantry around, hidden but with line of sight to potential enemy positions. I'll see what they can spot.

[stikkypixie]

Okay, cool. I've just started the mission British Mettle and positioned a fair bit of infantry around, hidden but with line of sight to potential enemy positions. I'll see what they can spot.

Hidden units have very bad spotting ability.

[Hairy Pie]

Hidden units have very bad spotting ability.

I'll 'unhide' them then

[Erwin]

Yes, wot Stikky said...

For what it's worth I like to move units (in Hunt usually) but always with a Hide command at the end just in case. Next turn I unhide em and let em spot for a few minutes (assuming I feel there is something out there).

[Hairy Pie]

Hmm, never though of hiding them at the end, must give that a try.

[LongLeftFlank]

Note that it's nearly impossible IMXP to spot infantry HIDING inside buildings (not on rooftops or balconies though), no matter how long you scan. This can be true even when you're adjacent. On the other hand, a few rounds of area fire will usually reveal them.

[Lethaface]

With the NATO Fennek, will it be wise to let recce teams unmount and spot on foot or use the vehicle's spotting capability?

Obviously I don't mean driving the Fennek into plain sight of possible IFV's etc, but for example crested behind a hill. What spots better, the recce in Fennek or the recce on top of a 1/2 story building?

[Hairy Pie]

Note that it's nearly impossible IMXP to spot infantry HIDING inside buildings (not on rooftops or balconies though), no matter how long you scan. This can be true even when you're adjacent. On the other hand, a few rounds of area fire will usually reveal them.

That makes sense.

You know though, I think I'm not aggresive enough with my units. I tend to sit around a lot trying to identify enemy locations, and then arty them or pick them off from range, but I still end up losing units. Maybe I should arty the area's first and then imediately assault them with everything I've got, in a few supporting waves? The enemy shooting at me will at least reveal their positions.

Maybe it's because I'm a Brit, and I am aware we don't have a huge army that can simply absorb the casualties (or the political will for that matter!).

[Boche]

till you see the whites in their eyes!!! charge!!

[vincere]

That makes sense.

You know though, I think I'm not aggresive enough with my units. I tend to sit around a lot trying to identify enemy locations, and then arty them or pick them off from range, but I still end up losing units. Maybe I should arty the area's first and then imediately assault them with everything I've got, in a few supporting waves? The enemy shooting at me will at least reveal their positions.

Maybe it's because I'm a Brit, and I am aware we don't have a huge army that can simply absorb the casualties (or the political will for that matter!).

I've been following this thread closely. I kind of role play and try to do any mission with minimum of casualties. If I get one, the priority becomes to neutralise that particular incoming so they can buddy aid. Feeling an affinity to my pixel troops is a signaficant part of the immersion and the reason I play. Playing like this makes spotting crucial.

Sometimes the spotting leaves me baffled. The Airfield mission in basegame compaign. Low civ density, a load of bandits who were lieing on the pan. My sniper, Fire Support, TAC, and HQ, mg teams, Javelin team, but still couldn't spot from the 4th floor HQ after 20 minutes of something.

[Hairy Pie]

Vincere, I like to do a bit of role-play myself, and sometimes even pick a unit as if I were in it and making sure that, that particular unit at least survives. I don't know why I should even care, maybe its because of the on-going conflicts at the moment, which is now very much a part of our lives. I went out on a date a few weeks ago with a lass who was over in Camp Bastion last year with the TA, and I've been in local pubs and seen soldier's being given a send off by their mates, before heading off to Afghanistan.

Maybe that's why I'm not all that interested in CM Normandy?

Anyway, I'm now going to re-try the same mission with a bit more gusto and see what happens!

[Erwin]

"I tend to sit around a lot trying to identify enemy locations, and then arty them or pick them off from range..."

HP: It makes the game a bit boring, but, I think a large part of success in the game is going exactly what you describe above. (Certainly with the extra range of the Brit rifles.) Not sure why you still get ("unacceptable?") casualties.

[Dietrich]

With the NATO Fennek, will it be wise to let recce teams unmount and spot on foot or use the vehicle's spotting capability?

Obviously I don't mean driving the Fennek into plain sight of possible IFV's etc, but for example crested behind a hill. What spots better, the recce in Fennek or the recce on top of a 1/2 story building?

In my experience it's rather a "six of one, half a dozen of another" thing. A recon vehicle is way more apt to get spotted than recon dismounts simply because it's a vehicle; but it's spotting capability (generally) is much greater than that of dismounts. Recon dismounts can Hunt/Slow into position without getting spotted and can remain there for pretty much as long as they like, but their spotting capability often leaves something to be desired.

If the indicators (in the game and in the manual) are anything to go by, the Fennek is no better armored than an up-armored HMMWV (UAH). But unlike the typical UAH, it has IR optics plus a laser rangefinder and (depending on which army it belongs to) an M2HB, an MG3, or a grenade launcher.

[Jonny(FGM)]

Recon dismounts can Hunt/Slow into position without getting spotted and can remain there for pretty much as long as they like, but their spotting capability often leaves something to be desired.

Certainly when only in in ever 2 recon teams gets a pair of binoculars

[Lethaface]

In my experience it's rather a "six of one, half a dozen of another" thing. A recon vehicle is way more apt to get spotted than recon dismounts simply because it's a vehicle; but it's spotting capability (generally) is much greater than that of dismounts. Recon dismounts can Hunt/Slow into position without getting spotted and can remain there for pretty much as long as they like, but their spotting capability often leaves something to be desired.

If the indicators (in the game and in the manual) are anything to go by, the Fennek is no better armored than an up-armored HMMWV (UAH). But unlike the typical UAH, it has IR optics plus a laser rangefinder and (depending on which army it belongs to) an M2HB, an MG3, or a grenade launcher.

I think you are right in this. Fenneks would be better to use for spotting, but a brewed up Fennek spots less than a living soldier on a roof top

That .50 makes it a bit more potent for 'recon on the go' or however you call recon suicide missions I mean driving a Fennek into a landscape which incorporates ATGM's on the lookout, is nothing short of suicide. At least they can return fire quickly after the inferior ATGM has missed and pop smoke before reversing.

I guess a large part of recon is presenting yourself as a target and hope the enemy shoots (and miss), so that you can retaliate (without missing)

This is why I prefer to use MBT's for recon in CMSF. They just eat up most incoming and reply with adequate force.

[Hairy Pie]

Could anyone write a AAR, or even better record one for the mission 'British Mettle'?

I've tried allsorts, but am getting nowhere. My dismounted recon troops and snipers/spotters can't spot anything. Even the static tanks only get spotted when I bring the Challengers up! Despite good line of site to where the enemy is, there are shots coming in left right and centre and no one sees a thing

I'm playing on the second hardest dificulty level (the one before 'Iron'?), sorry I'm at work and not sat in front of the game.

[stikkypixie]

Could anyone write a AAR, or even better record one for the mission 'British Mettle'?

I've tried allsorts, but am getting nowhere. My dismounted recon troops and snipers/spotters can't spot anything. Even the static tanks only get spotted when I bring the Challengers up! Despite good line of site to where the enemy is, there are shots coming in left right and centre and no one sees a thing

I'm playing on the second hardest dificulty level (the one before 'Iron'?), sorry I'm at work and not sat in front of the game.

The enemy in that scenario are VERY well hidden. The distances are also quite long over 1-2km and it is also pitch dark. How long do you let you units spot? If you have to give them quite some time (10-15 turns). Spotting also gets better as the scenario progresses because of the rising sun.

[Hairy Pie]

Yeah, It's a couple of hours long. I may spend the first hour just getting some units in positions and just wait and see what they find, before assaulting.