Shockforce - Software Developer Kit

[DeltaSix]

Hello people,

Is there a SDK (Software Developer Kit) or something like this for Shockforce , to create mods for CMSF? If so where can i find the documentation and information about it? It not, maybe there are software interfaces, software specs, etc etc todo it myself.

What i like todo is:

• Create new soldier types e.g. Rangers, Commando's, Special forces
  
• Tweak AI, alter it if possible
  
• Create new unit types like airplanes and vehicles
  
• New weapon types
  
• Create maps with mountains and vegitation of choice
  

Thank you.

[rune]

There is not, all you are allowed to do is change the skins of the vehicles and soldiers.

Rune

[DeltaSix]

Oh, that is a pitty. I was so hoping there was a way to customize and mod it.

Sheers

[akd]

Maps are created in the in-game editor. You can change textures for all vegetation and ground. All 3D model skins can be customized. All sounds can be customized.

[George MC]

You cane create your own maps, scenarios etc in the editor (which is in-game). This also allows you to create plans for the strategic AI to follow e.g. how it attacks etc.

As Rune says you cannot change the actual models although you can modify the skins - for both vehicles, soldiers and terrain.

[Alex]

But maybe BFC should return to this thread, after NATO module will be realized. It gives much longest life to CMSF, I think (look at 'OFP' and 'ARMA').

[rune]

Alex,

It has been discussed to death, why would they open up their code to allow others to compete against them with their own code? Not going to happen.

Rune

[DeltaSix]

Hi George MC,

Thank you for the links to those tutorials, i'll start with them. Try to get the most out of the CMSF game engine. Have some nice stories to simulate, just have to figure out how airforce units work.

Wel akd, at first glance the tools that come with CMSF seem a bit limited. Special forces wil be nice, if it is possible to tweak settings and models. It is just a thought, so i must be imaginative then.

Kind Regards...

[akd]

It is more limited than some games, less than others. I think the amount of "modability" fits BFC's business model. The one exception I see: I would like to be able to edit OOB and TO&E to create new units using the available assets in the game and I don't think such a "unit editor" would lose BFC any sales, but I'm sure they see it differently. Of course that would also require substantial coding that I'm sure BFC sees little return on.

[Redwolf]

I want to write a programmed opponent (aka "AI" in game slang). Has been impossible to get any wargame developer to even thing about it. Never mind you can do it for every single Quake clone since 1996, except it would be a *bigger* sales boost for a wargame.

[meade95]

Alex,

It has been discussed to death, why would they open up their code to allow others to compete against them with their own code? Not going to happen.

Rune

I still think if BFC sold "modded" units to the public (with tweaked skill sets, weapons, etc, etc) it could provide both a longer shelf life as well as profitability.

For example, a repeated request has been for small special forces type units (with tweaked weapon loadouts, an increase in close range weapons accuracy, spotting capabilities, along with over all survivability). This from a coding stand point would be very easily created by BFC.

They could sell it to the public for say $9.99. A stand alone DL (that would only work if you have purchased CMSF, obviously). It simply adds say two or three new unit types for purchase (Rangers, SEALs, SAS). Not whole battalions or anything like that. Just 3 small platoon size units that could be used for select type operations along side your larger CMSF force of USMC and Army units...

I would venture to guess plenty of current customers would purchase it...and it would also bring in another group who probably have yet to purchase CMSF at all..... for very little opportunity cost on BFC side of things (with absolutely no coding being given out to boot).

[meade95]

You wonder if it would be worth it, for BFC, to simply do some type of small poll (and extraplate from that) if it would be worth it ....To offer small modded unit for purchase DLs.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Logistical nightmare.

[ChrisND]

Micro-transaction additions would be, as Elmar said, a nightmare for a game like this. Imagine if there are five of these items out. I promise that many scenarios designers will throw in one or two of these items in many scenarios, maybe even most of them. Now players have to buy all of them if they ever hope to play a sizeable amount of user-generated scenarios and campaigns. Fracturing the player base and all that.

The only way to do it is the way Battlefront is already going to do it: a "Funny" module for Combat Mission: Normandy that contains all sorts of odds and ends, but in a large enough package that it is another module.

[Chainsaw]

Combat Mission Shock Force: Special Forces. I would buy it

[meade95]

Micro-transaction additions would be, as Elmar said, a nightmare for a game like this. Imagine if there are five of these items out. I promise that many scenarios designers will throw in one or two of these items in many scenarios, maybe even most of them. Now players have to buy all of them if they ever hope to play a sizeable amount of user-generated scenarios and campaigns. Fracturing the player base and all that.

The only way to do it is the way Battlefront is already going to do it: a "Funny" module for Combat Mission: Normandy that contains all sorts of odds and ends, but in a large enough package that it is another module.

I don't see this as the case at all? Or in any way that should matter. I would venture to say many CMSF customers play plenty of their own created scenarios. Which they could use these individual mods for.

And if they release their scenarios / upload them for others....so be it. If you need to have a particular unit, you either purchase the small mod or you don't and you skip past that user created scenario to another one of your liking. Simply gives customers more options while benefiting BFC.

I contend BFC would/could make money and have a larger customer base if they went the route of providing small unit addtions for a $10 rate. Via indiviual DLs (which takes away all the coding / customer modding issues).

But the notion that unless everyone has it, it would cause to many problems I just don't agree with.

From a business stand point. Right now, BFC could turn out tweaked units that represent SEALs, Rangers, SAS, etc.....in very limited time. No need for all that goes into a new mod like NATO, with all the equipment, vehicles, etc, etc....... But simply some enhanced units in capabilities, maybe short range accuarcy, spotting, etc, etc..... These would simply be tweaking the values that are already there that make up represented units today (within CMSF). Put new skins on the units to reflect who they are....and you're done. They could be selling such an update within a couple weeks time.

It would be profitbale and does not take much research time or labor hours away from other priority long term future projects that are on going. What it does do, is provides their current customer base more options (for a profitable and reasonable price) while also likely catching the attention of a "new" customer base that would purcahse CMSF and Marines who have yet to do so to date.

The other option of creating a whole new larger Nato/Marines type mod is way to labor entensive and consuming for the ROI, they may contend. Especailly when they have other things already lined up for the future.

[Clavicula_Nox]

Combat Mission Shock Force: Special Forces. I would buy it

So would I.

Right now I make do by using Stryker MOUT and Infantry Brigade Combat Team units, but I'm always making compromises.

[ChrisND]

I don't see this as the case at all? Or in any way that should matter. I would venture to say many CMSF customers play plenty of their own created scenarios.

I really, really doubt that. In fact I'd put money on it being otherwise.

And if they release their scenarios / upload them for others....so be it. If you need to have a particular unit, you either purchase the small mod or you don't and you skip past that user created scenario to another one of your liking. Simply gives customers more options while benefiting BFC.

\

So in other words, it would make you happy, so who cares how it will affect the rest of the player base. Imagine this with five separate packs running around. It would be a chore just figuring whether I could play a scenario or not.

I contend BFC would/could make money and have a larger customer base if they went the route of providing small unit addtions for a $10 rate.

If it is such a great idea, why aren't they doing it?

Via indiviual DLs (which takes away all the coding / customer modding issues).

I don't understand how individual downloads can hand-wave away the issues.

But the notion that unless everyone has it, it would cause to many problems I just don't agree with.

Again, imagine it with more than just your SOF pack running around.

From a business stand point. Right now, BFC could turn out tweaked units that represent SEALs, Rangers, SAS, etc.....in very limited time. No need for all that goes into a new mod like NATO, with all the equipment, vehicles, etc, etc....... But simply some enhanced units in capabilities, maybe short range accuarcy, spotting, etc, etc..... These would simply be tweaking the values that are already there that make up represented units today (within CMSF). Put new skins on the units to reflect who they are....and you're done. They could be selling such an update within a couple weeks time. It would be profitbale and does not take much research time or labor hours away from other priority long term future projects that are on going.

Actually it isn't as simple as you think it is. New 3d models take time to complete. Ditto with artwork. The TO&E will take some time to research and implement. Maybe Steve can educate you on how troublesome it is to do, I've seen it firsthand. Giving the units enhanced capabilities isn't as simple as flipping some integers either. This is all time that could be spent working on the future titles/modules, instead of adding minor content to one that is already going obsolete.

What it does do, is provides their current customer base more options (for a profitable and reasonable price) while also likely catching the attention of a "new" customer base that would purcahse CMSF and Marines who have yet to do so to date.

I really doubt that the game would attract new customers because of a $10 download.

You are wasting your time meade. Every time this issue has come up Battlefront has come down very firmly against it. You would be better off lobbying to get SOF units into CMSF 2 than trying to satisfy your pet desire as quickly as possible. Furthermore you are only considering this for your single SOF-pack: now imagine five of these packs running around, and tell me that it wouldn't just be easier to consolidate them in a module.

Bottom line, you can call for it until you are blue in the face, but they aren't going to do it. They've made that clear numerous times.

[SlapHappy]

My question is: How much would a SEAL team add in variety to the way the game is played now? What would delineate any of these units in the tactical sense given the current capabilities of the game engine?

I would much rather see more useful infantry capabilities including new animations. The only useful approach I can see to adding these Special Forces units would be if the scope of the game's capabilities were extended anyway. Plugging something like that in now feels too much like putting the cart before the horse.

[Mord]

I too, would much rather see SF in a module if it were to be done, which I doubt. It's much easier to say you will need the base game + this module to play a scenario, than it would if you had to have Base+Module+Ranger DL+ Etc.

Mord.

[Mord]

I would much rather see more useful infantry capabilities including new animations. The only useful approach I can see to adding these Special Forces units would be if the scope of the game's capabilities were extended anyway. Plugging something like that in now feels too much like putting the cart before the horse.

Amen to that. Good point. Getting infantry actions honed and fine tuned would make the game better all around...I am happy with it for the most part...but buildings and balconies definitely need work when it comes to infantry. And some new, added animations wouldn't hurt.

Mord.

[meade95]

I really don't see how having multiple options with differing units/could could be all that much of a problem. I really don't. It is happening in virutally every other game / sim. Be it from ARMA, GR, HPS Sims, ATF, POA, CCMT, hell all the way back to the R6/RS days. etc, etc, etc.

There are plenty of differing customer or company made mods out there that are required to play various customer made scenarios. People either choose to get what is needed or not and simply bypassing playing that particular scenario. It isn't a big deal at all.

As for why BFC isn't doing it. Because they see the opportunity costs as being too high. Steve has already said this. I tend to believe they aren't right on this particular issue.

As for the work needed (for a small unit based mod). You have done terriffic work yourself? Perhaps BFC could purchase your already nice modded units? Or give you credit towards the mods themselves??

As for tweaking the performance values of the units themselves. The layout for performance of units is already in place and I cannot believe it could be that time consuming to tweak. Hell, it is already in place in terms of "recruit, veteran, elite" to some degree, is it not? They already have spotting capablilties within the game. Increasing these all slightly more, to new skinned unit model could not be that time consuming.

As for wasting my time. Probably. But this is just a forum for those that enjoy CMSF. Why not pass my thoughts along? I had the time.

Best regards

[meade95]

My question is: How much would a SEAL team add in variety to the way the game is played now? What would delineate any of these units in the tactical sense given the current capabilities of the game engine?

I would much rather see more useful infantry capabilities including new animations. The only useful approach I can see to adding these Special Forces units would be if the scope of the game's capabilities were extended anyway. Plugging something like that in now feels too much like putting the cart before the horse.

I can understand this - However, the notion of there being a SOF mod in full is likely not going to happen - That seems to be the positon of BFC - My thoughts, are why not do something much more simple - Offer it out there as a very simple mod with a few performance tweaked units (perhaps in terms of their spotting capabilities, CQC weapons efficienty and weapons loadouts). Allow, the users to come up with differing ways to make sceanrio's in which these tweaked units could playout within the larger CSMF game. BFC wouldn't need to provide that content / context.

The larger tweaks or more accurately game improvements that you suggest above would probably take up much more time and resources that BFC has any interest in doing (for CMSF). Is there going to be a CMSF 2??

[Mord]

Is there going to be a CMSF 2??

Yep...They've said as much. It's gonna be in a temperate climate and most likely will include US/NATO vs Russians...or maybe Chinese...remains to be seen. My guess, Russians.

Mord.

[akd]

My question is: How much would a SEAL team add in variety to the way the game is played now? What would delineate any of these units in the tactical sense given the current capabilities of the game engine?

I would much rather see more useful infantry capabilities including new animations. The only useful approach I can see to adding these Special Forces units would be if the scope of the game's capabilities were extended anyway. Plugging something like that in now feels too much like putting the cart before the horse.

When I think of adding "special forces" to CMSF I'm not really imagining l33t Delta teams running assassinating people and generally being sneaky, I'm thinking along the lines of "elite forces" like 75th Ranger Regiment, Royal Marines, Korps Mariniers, German FJ and other such units for which we have everything we need in the game and just lack the necessary OOB and TO&E and perhaps a few 3D models. Of course ODA, KSK, SAS, etc. teams would be a neat visual/narrative addition even if they just behaved as another infantry squad/team.