Suicide Bombing

[Shadow Stalker]

The battle between the Israelis and some Palestinian organizations (such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad) is a classic case of asymmetric warfare. Israel has a powerful army, air force and navy, while these Palestinian organisations have no access to large-scale military equipment; instead, they utilize asymmetric tactics, such as: small gunfights in Palestine's West Bank, cross-border sniping, rocket attacks,[15] and suicide bombing.[16].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare#Asymmetric_warfare_and_terrorism

Ok so enough of the history lesson, my question to members of BFC and some of the old hands on the forum is this; As suicide bombing is an integral part of asymmetric warfare and CMSF is in part based on this concept, why where suicide bombers left out of CMSF and its modules?

This puzzles me as just about every other aspect of asymmetric warfare is represented including VIED’s, this is even more strange when just about every insurgent organisation in the world has used or is using this tactic. Any thoughts? (Apologies if this topic has been brought up before).

[MikeyD]

CMSF may be asymetric but its still a conflict between heavily armed 'nation states'. You tell as Syrian soldier to strap a bomb to his chest and he'll say "Why don't you fire fire an AT-4 missile at them from 3km away instead?" Recent insurgent-centric conflics have, apparently, entirely lacked ATGMs or tanks. or air power, or particularly effective artillery.

[Shadow Stalker]

Thanks Mikey D for the explanation, however there is still the uncon side of CMSF that would use these tactics don't you agree?

[Ryujin]

It might be worth noting the suicide car bomb for the UNCONs, probably one of their deadliest weapons when employed correctly. I think this the suicide component to the UNCONs, and is less of a static VBIED, if that's how you were referring to it?

Smaller person-sized bombs are not featured and maybe not as useful in high intensity fighting (pretty much all of CMSF scenarios). You can however sit a IED triggerman on top of his IED and hide him next to a structure as a sort of suicide boobytrap. BLUFOR enter the structure, the triggerman usually spots them before he dies and touches off the IED with little regard to the fact he's sitting on it. Often takes out the wall and anyone inside the building he was next to. This little trick has worked out pretty well for me in multiplayer.

[Sequoia]

The rumor is we'll get more Uncon types with NATO. Maybe Shadow's wish will be fulfilled.

[dan/california]

I would have sworn I played a scenario with a suicide bomber or two sometime way back when. It was quite nerve wracking in close quarters fighting.

[meade95]

Somewhat off topic (but for replayability with IEDs/VBIEDs and suicide bombers) it would be nice if BFC allowed for a "probability" tab with regard to units being placed within maps (Much like ARMA II allows for). Where you are allowed to give a percentage figure on whether a particular unit/s will actually show up within a created mission.

This would a nice feature in CMSF...especially with regard to IEDs...

[LongLeftFlank]

I would have sworn I played a scenario with a suicide bomber or two sometime way back when. It was quite nerve wracking in close quarters fighting.

Yes, both sides will accidentally "suicide bomb" themselves on occasion by tossing grenades at adjacent targets inside buildings. I have see this happen numerous times to both sides.

[hoolaman]

I think there was a discussion about this before CMSF came out and the consensus was that running individual suicide bombers around the map would be extremely distasteful for the player and would be an overall negative for the game considering they wouldn't be very effective.

[Inkompetent]

Well, suicide bombers wouldn't really be 'running around'. As stated by Ryujin they can be highly effective ambush troops (thus mostly useful in defend-missions). Never fun risking to lose an entire fire team when moving into a seemingly empty building.

[Sheppy]

I think there was a discussion about this before CMSF came out and the consensus was that running individual suicide bombers around the map would be extremely distasteful for the player and would be an overall negative for the game considering they wouldn't be very effective.

more effective than the cars and those are effective plenty.

[Shadow Stalker]

I agree both in game as Ryujin suggested and in the real world it has been seen time and again that suicide bombers on foot can get closer to the their targets then VBIED,s especially when female suicide bombers are involved. (As abhorrently distasteful as this is)

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE62T114.htm

More over suicide bombers on foot have killed a number of high profile world leaders including: Pakistan's President; Benazir Bhutto, India’s President; Rajiv Ratna Gandh, and the President of Sri Lanka; Ranasinghe Premadasa.

As stated by both Ryujin and Inkompetent

“they can be highly effective ambush troops (thus mostly useful in defend-missions). Never fun risking to lose an entire fire team when moving into a seemingly empty building”

In our realm the use of close quarters combat is ideal in the use of suicide bombers, although never used there are indications that even the insurgents in Fallujah were considering this tactic.

“Marines in Fallujah recovered a variety of exploding vests and belts, some packed with a blend of explosives and lead fishing weights. Unit reporting does not indicate any suicide bombers were actually employed in combat, however”

http://www.scribd.com/doc/9228158/Fallujah-httpwikileaksorgleakfallujahpdf

[Sheppy]

will a spotter blow himself up if an enemy walks over an ied he is activating and it is very close to him?

[Jonny(FGM)]

You can however sit a IED triggerman on top of his IED and hide him next to a structure as a sort of suicide boobytrap. BLUFOR enter the structure, the triggerman usually spots them before he dies and touches off the IED with little regard to the fact he's sitting on it.

From earlier in this thread : )

[meade95]

You can however sit a IED triggerman on top of his IED and hide him next to a structure as a sort of suicide boobytrap. BLUFOR enter the structure, the triggerman usually spots them before he dies and touches off the IED with little regard to the fact he's sitting on it. Often takes out the wall and anyone inside the building he was next to. This little trick has worked out pretty well for me in multiplayer.

This would be much better, if in CMSF, there was a probability scale of whether or not the IED/Guy would be in the mission or not. THat is somewhat of the problem with IEDs, in that if you create a scenario with them....You know where they are and how to avoid them.

If CMSF allowed a probability rating to be assoicated with a given unit.....It would allow for less predictability with regard to IEDs...(ARMA does this well).

[Sheppy]

From earlier in this thread : )

ffs... : )