Mlrs?

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Just curious as to why the US does not have the MLRS available for scenarios. They do still have them though as a corps or divisonal level asset rather than belonging to the BCT directly. Perhaps they might be included in a future patch?

[YankeeDog]

The MLRS is nicknamed the "Grid Square Removal Service" for a reason. It's typically used to blow up an entire square kilometer or more at once. So It's generally not the kind of thing you'd see used once the engagement distance reaches the distances you see in a CM scenario; basically the whole map of most CM scenarios is "Danger Close." for MLRS.

Now, the new GPS-guided munitions for the MLRS system (M30 & XM31) are a different story... but my understanding is that these are still in pretty limited usage and in fact were just coming out as CMSF was released. So it's not surprising that BFC didn't include them. Also worth noting that the tactical difference between these systems and a JDAM at the CM scale is probably pretty minimal.

[MikeyD]

I'm reminded of the occassional poster who protests the lack of tactical nukes in the game!

The closest you can get, I suppose, to MLRS in the game is Syrian heavy BM-21 artillery rocket batteries, and nobody ever ever ever uses them in quantity. I do have the AI use them in only one of my 3rd party scenarios (King Copper Mines) to create a wall of fire to delay the opponent's initial movements. If I intentionally dropped them on top of the enemy at startup the game would very nearly be over right there, which sort'a spoils the fun.

As a matter of fact, one of my Brit scenarios I do let Reds conduct a limited opening rocket barrage on top of a convoy using Type-63 medium rockets. OMG, some people got sooooo pissed at me for starting the scenario that way!

[Lethaface]

In Red scenarios with a lot of time lots BM-21's should be a lot of fun!

"The last Infidel-Crusade"

'Syrian commanders have kept a large sized force hidden underground and are preparing for a large flanking attack at the main US HQ. You have 4 BM-21's, 15 T-90's and a company or two Airborne infantry along with BMP-3's.'

It is that i'm too lazy to make a map.. I could dig into the scenario coding, but the map has to be perfect and I am not able/willing to invest that type of time. Perhaps one day....

Actually it is funny that many people complain about the unfairness of the game, while most of the scenario's don't even spawn the best Red equipment available. Since your Turbocharged scenario I can't blame you anymore though, MikeyD!

But still you used Reserve infantry and BMP-2's in this scenario. Whats up with that Airborne troops or SF?

[Pvt. Ryan]

I hope we get the huge rocket barrages back when we get to CMX2 Eastern Front. It was fun obliterating the entire map in the first minute of a game.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

I had a feeling that you guys would say something like that although having just experienced something of a British defeat in Damascus (got bogged diwn in a "Damascograd" type situation and didn't have enough infantry to clear the high rise buildings the Syriians were holding) I am therefore in the mood for a little grid square removal. Perhaps I should consider applying for a commission in the Russian army instead... :-)

[MikeyD]

People have been known to sneak into scenarios, switch from 'Blue vs Red' to 'Blue vs Blue' and provide the Red side with some airpower to play with. For MLRS you could clandestinely switch scenario mode to 'Red vs Red', purchase Blue a battery of BM-21s to play with.

[Sequoia]

I imagine we'll get Nebelwerfers in CM:Normandy so we won't have to wait for the Eastern Front. I wonder if we'll get 14" Battleship gun support for the Allies. Oh and carpet-bombing B-17s. They did that once.

[flamingknives]

I would have really liked to see GMLRS in CMSF. For the British at least, it is one of the most favoured methods of fire support since they took a few launchers to Helmand in mid-2007.

A neat way to take out a high-rise building without scratching the ones on either side.

ATACMS with the US has also been used in troublesome urban scenarios

[YankeeDog]

I imagine we'll get Nebelwerfers in CM:Normandy so we won't have to wait for the Eastern Front. I wonder if we'll get 14" Battleship gun support for the Allies. Oh and carpet-bombing B-17s. They did that once.

Well, since bombs that fell short in the carpet bombing prior to the St. Lo breakout were responsible for many friendly casualties, including the only American general officer killed in combat action in WWII, I vote that, if carpet bombing B-17s are included in the game, the game also come an actual explosive device that must be attached to the computer in order to use B-17 air support, with a certain % chance that it detonates when the bombs drop, thereby killing the player.

[Yair Iny]

Well, since bombs that fell short in the carpet bombing prior to the St. Lo breakout were responsible for many friendly casualties, including the only American general officer killed in combat action in WWII, I vote that, if carpet bombing B-17s are included in the game, the game also come an actual explosive device that must be attached to the computer in order to use B-17 air support, with a certain % chance that it detonates when the bombs drop, thereby killing the player.

He he, nice one Yankee Dog. You know, HOI3 has the option to use nuclear weapons. I would be interested to know what PC attachment you'd have for that, perhaps something that attaches to your microwave as well?

[Sequoia]

Well, since bombs that fell short in the carpet bombing prior to the St. Lo breakout were responsible for many friendly casualties, including the only American general officer killed in combat action in WWII, I vote that, if carpet bombing B-17s are included in the game, the game also come an actual explosive device that must be attached to the computer in order to use B-17 air support, with a certain % chance that it detonates when the bombs drop, thereby killing the player.

There's some guys that post in the general forum I'd like to send that version to. I've never dared venture into the Peng thread.

[gibsonm]

I had a feeling that you guys would say something like that although having just experienced something of a British defeat in Damascus (got bogged diwn in a "Damascograd" type situation and didn't have enough infantry to clear the high rise buildings the Syriians were holding) I am therefore in the mood for a little grid square removal. Perhaps I should consider applying for a commission in the Russian army instead... :-)

Well the limitations on their use is even greater in an urban environment.

There are laws against using such weapons in an urban (and therefore likely to be "civilian rich") environment.

And as you were playing as a Brit you'd be off to the International Criminal Court for a definitive war crime (especially as no doubt the Lawyer on your HQ said "you can't do that sir, it illegal" before you ordered the mission to proceed ).

Of course if you'd been a US player you'd be home free as the US isn't bound by the ICC.

[MikeyD]

It seems a fair number of players ascribe to that old Vietnam era aphorism "We had to destroy the village to save it".

[Sequoia]

Any one remember the old CMBO scenario where you had to race your vehicles through the crooked streets of a city, barreling past German defenders before the whole place was bombed to pieces? You can't say that wasn't fun. Anyway, I don't really think carpet bombing is needed in the new France '44 game but we were talking about big explosions. I'll be happy with the Nebelwerfers. I only got to use them once in CMBO.

[John Kettler]

YankeeDog,

Might want to recheck your stats. For starters.

http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question19805.html

Longer list here.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/history/532858-highest-ranking-us-military-officer-killed.html

Good intentions go awry! Protecting Pratt got him killed.

http://www.americandday.org/Virtual%20Museum/Veterans/Wilbert_Charles/Wilbert%20Charles.htm

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

I hope we get the huge rocket barrages back when we get to CMX2 Eastern Front. It was fun obliterating the entire map in the first minute of a game.

That was rather impressive to watch. Of course, it was essential for your troops to maintain their distance while all that was going on.

Michael

[YankeeDog]

YankeeDog,

Might want to recheck your stats. For starters.

Regards,

John Kettler

Thanks for the correction; I knew there was something significant about McNair's death in operation COBRA. But somewhere in my mind the fact that he was the highest ranking US officer killed in combat in the war, got transmuted into him being the only general level officer killed in action... obviously, I should have checked my facts.

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Gibsonm my defence is that it was a "map reading" error. We were in fact targeting something outside the city but "unfortunately" someone gave the MLRS battery commander the incorrect grid refeerence which is why the MLRS strike hit that city tower block where those Syrian paramiilitary just happened to be (they were of course using the poor unfortunate civillians as human shields. My HQ lawyer will be very understanding of this particularly as the MLRS battery commander has since been disciplined. But perhaps best not to give anyone in the real world any ideas :-)

In all seriousness, in the event that MLRS were to be included there would have to be strict limitations in the amount of ammunition available and long reloading times to prevent overuse and of course to reflect the real world capabilities of the weapon. In so far as the use of these weapons against urban areas they can either be left out altogether or scenario ROE victory condidtions used to reflect the legal niceties used ti punish indiscriminate use.

[gibsonm]

Nice try, but I'm afraid no cigar.