Landmines

[souldierz]

Is the mine spotting a little bugged or am I missing a key fact?

I think i saw a while back on a thread someone explaining how to clear a mine field, but after using the search i couldn't find anything on it, just people with the same problem i hit.

I just recently had a very nasty run in with mines in a trench.It seems the only way to detect mines is to have your guy's step on them and blow up.There's no other way they will find those mines and this is a little frustrating.I lose to many pixel men trying to figure it out.

I had my Engineers go into the trench and made them hunt from 1 end to another.Then when they almost reached their destination, the 2 last guys got blasted by stepping on mines(1KIA,1WIA).

A red sign appeared beside my downed men marking where the mines were.For the first time i actually got to use the mark mines order with the engineers and when i used it they stayed there hiding and spotting until the sign turned yellow.After that they gave buddy aid to the downed troops and the mark mine action order was no longer available.

I remember someone saying when the sign is green its clear,but it stayed yellow and i didn't know what else to do so i told my men to Hunt further then it happened again, 3 other men went down in the same mined area(1KIA,2WIA).Now 1 guy found himself alone in a mine field with his whole squad dead and dying.

I can't seem to find the proper method of discovering and then disabling the mines without casualties.There's no mine detectors or troops digging in the dirt with knives and also no single file path following so what else can i do?

I know hitting hidden mines is the reality of war,but it seems like there's no way to spot mines or IED's in this game in order to disable them without harm no matter what info i have.

I know that avoiding mine fields is the best strategy but how would you go about to clearing them without loses?

Also, Is artillery able to clear a mine field in game?

[MeatEtr]

IIRC, it can take quite awhile to clear a minefield, up to around several minutes possibly. I consider this something the game should tell the player in the soldier status at bottom left is when you engineers are clearing mines.

Hasn't somebody run tests on this before?

[Pvt. Ryan]

The only way to find mines is to trigger them.

[MikeyD]

I am hoping engineers get 'fleshed-out' a bit more in the Normandy title. Still, a minefield is a minefield. Even a fully represented engineer squad would have to clear mines by slowly crawling on their bellies poking the ground ahead with a stick. Not exactly the ultimate gameing experience watching that take place... but with extended length scenarios you could give it a go.

[MikeyD]

I don't think the scenario designers like to use mines much, except for an occasional 'gotcha' booby trap. They're rarely used for area denial. You hardly ever see a broad field designated a 'no-go' area due to mines. I tried the broad belt minefield idea in a recent scenario attempt and I can't say I was particularly happy with the results, gameplay-wise.

[Sixxkiller]

Ya I know the ones I have made I just use them so you dont go a way I dont want ya to. IED's are also more fun as the boom boom can be fun.

[c3k]

souldiez' post is THE definitive article encompassing mine clearing operations. What he has described is exactly how it usually works for me.

Ken

[gibsonm]

I am hoping engineers get 'fleshed-out' a bit more in the Normandy title. Still, a minefield is a minefield. Even a fully represented engineer squad would have to clear mines by slowly crawling on their bellies poking the ground ahead with a stick. Not exactly the ultimate gaming experience watching that take place... but with extended length scenarios you could give it a go.

Especially as "engineer armour" (ploughs, rollers, giant viper, etc.) are yet to be implemented, let alone the whole "SOSRA" idea.

[JonS]

Especially as "engineer armour" (ploughs, rollers, giant viper, etc.) are yet to be implemented, let alone the whole "SOSRA" idea.

What a cop out. That's like saying that "combined arms attacks" are not yet implemented.

SOS_A is implemented, it's just up to you to put the pieces together. You know; you, as commander, making decisions and a plan, then synchronising and coordinating your assets.

___R_ is not well implemented, but if you get the other sorted out what /is/ available (i.e., hand clearing after detection by braille) should be sufficient. Furthermore, if the obstacle* is not a minefield - or at least not exclusively a large, high density minefield - even that constraint falls away.

Jon

* granted that CMSF doesn't do water obstacles, nor wire obstacles.

[John Kettler]

souldierz,

I sympathize, especially since engineers have mine detection gear and shouldn't have to resort to penal battalion style mine clearing techniques. This seems like a better approach.

Military demining--EOD specialist's view

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3gmEDvzjJE&feature=related

How to clear landmines

MICLIC

perhaps after using these novel mine locators

But then, for many years I've watched engineers unable to clear simple barbed wire, let alone roadblocks, in CMx1. Even with AVREs in the game!

gibsonm,

Never heard of SOSRA before , so looked it up. Suppress, Obscure, Secure, Reduce, Assault. Any idea when the acronym was adopted? Is it peculiar to any one service, or is it a DOD joint acronym?

JonS,

We really need Bangalore torpedoes in all the CMx2 games, now and to come, and it ought to be doable. In fact, I wish there were retrofits for CMBB, CMAK and CMBO.

Regards,

John Kettler

[gibsonm]

gibsonm,

Never heard of SOSRA before , so looked it up. Suppress, Obscure, Secure, Reduce, Assault. Any idea when the acronym was adopted? Is it peculiar to any one service, or is it a DOD joint acronym?

Regards,

John Kettler

Firstly, just for info, a Giant Viper is like a MILIC on steroids.

I suspect the process has been going on since the Romans at Massada (after all a castle or other fortification is just another obstacle).

But you'd have to talk to an Engineer to get its official adoption date.

I'm sure it used across most western armies (and I guess the USMC) but can't vouch for the US "DOD", not being an American.

[c3k]

Beyond the engineering, a simple solution would be an explanation of what the frick is going on when the engineers "Mark Mines". And, more importantly, what has happened AFTER they've "Marked Mines". What does the yellow sign mean? Can I move _through_ that action spot? Can I only enter it? If I can move into or through it, am I constrained to only one path? Can I only enter it from one direction? If there is a safe path, can we have it marked with white outlines? That would make it look similar to path tape being laid on the ground. Is the yellow mine field safe for infantry AND vehicles, or only one or the other?

Ken

[lomir]

Hi, these two old threads might answer some of your questions:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=89036

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=89033

[souldierz]

After looking through the threads Lomir posted,It seems like everything i asked was already answered and this problem has been talked about from A to Z, covering mostly everything.

Thanks for the links, i was looking for those threads, but couldn't find them.

I wonder if Battlefront is going to be making some tweaks, so our men can detect mines as well as IED's.

Most of the suggestions that are made i feel are good ideas, like giving the troops or just engineers a spotting capability to represent some kind of tool used for mine detection.Give them a Hunt command and when they approach a mined location,they can halt on the spot and throw up a red sign.You can then choose

to get your engineers working on it or start looking for another way around the mined area.Maybe also have their ability to detect mines, be based on their experience level,so the rookies will be less likely to spot them and disable them quickly compared to Elite troops.

I understand that there might be a lot of coding work and hours to get the whole mine process to function in a brilliant way,but maybe these smart guy's working on this game can find a quick and dirty solution that would work.

[gibsonm]

but maybe these smart guy's working on this game can find a quick and dirty solution that would work.

From my experience BTS / BFC tries to avoid "quick and dirty" because for every one person who thanks them for the "quick" solution, there are multitudes who complain about the downsides of the "dirty" part.

As a result it tends to be a case of waiting for a "real" solution.

Indeed it could well be said that the current implementation of mines is itself a "quick and dirty" solution to begin with, with lots of people (including yourself ) unhappy with how it works.

[Lethaface]

A 'good' minefield is one which isn't easily spotted, even by engineers. I don't see how they should be able to sniff them out without something like the rats John posted about

Personally I don't think 'mine-detecting' would be fun in-game, except perhaps for the mine grogs. I don't see myself carefully moving the soldiers for 20 minutes to make a small clearance in a minefield. Perhaps micromanagement could be minimized by letting engineers clearing mines along a certain movement command, but still it would be utterly boring I guess.

The only viable option, in my opinion, is an 'arcady' approach like for example Sudden Strike had. Select a number of troops/engineers and press the clear mines button and they would look for and defuse mines among their position. There was a fail chance though, even for engineers.

Such an arcade approach (fast, automatic area mine detection & clearing) wouldn't really fit in this game though IMO.

Not withstanding the fact that it can be frustrating that you can't take a certain route in a particular scenario because of these bloody mines, and there's nothing you can do about it. Well I guess it's all part of the game!

[YankeeDog]

The important thing to recognize is that IRL, there are many different types of minefields; some are easy to detect, some are not.

A minefield can simply be a bunch of hastily scattered mines literally lying on the ground, left by retreating troops to slow down pursuit, or even scattered via helicopter or artillery shell. Ground surface mines can still be very effective, especially if they're covered by MG or mortar fire.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, it can be a carefully concealed, buried field created months or years prior. There are a range of possibilities between these two extremes.

It's also worth noting that even with carefully laid, buried fields, sometimes there's not a heck of a lot of effort put into concealing them. For example, minefields along contested political borders are often very well marked -- one of the problems with concealed fields is that friendlies (military or civilian) have a habit of forgetting they're there and running into them.

At present, BFC has obviously decided to depict only very difficult to detect, carefully laid, hidden fields. That's fine with me, for now. But there's obviously room for expansion and improvement. And if other types of less concealed minefields are added, then the ability of at least trained troops to detect them should also be modeled.

[Lethaface]

Yankeedog,

Good point. ATM there are mine warnings in-game, but they are very difficult to spot. Perhaps troops could shout about mines if they have spotted such a sign.