noxnoctum Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Maybe I'm just not issuing orders as well as I should be. I've been playing through the excellent Blowtorch battalion series of scenarios/operations and commanding large SPW formations is giving me a headache. Over and over and over they'll run into each other (even when they've been given quite adequate spacing) and stall, exposing a critical flank or just stopping my entire advance in its tracks. It's particularly irritating when I'm on the brink of reaching enemy defensive positions and having my panzergrenadiers hopping out and assaulting enemy held buildings that often ONE or two vehicles that made a wrong turn will stall what would have been a perfectly synchronized assault. Even crossing large expanses without any enemy contact though is quite a hassle. Suggestions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 nox, I see this as a faithful modelling of reality. The frustration is a true enough reaction to plans not working as they should and the world is an imperfect place. Expect frustration to be the norm and be pleasantly surprised when things happen the way you'd like them to. The terrain might not be graphically represented as having ant-bear holes and large logs lying all over the place, but they're there. (Ant-bears live in Africa, but you get my drift?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Are you plotting at level 6 to check movement paths are OK. ? Are you accounting for the qualities of the crews reaction times? Have you got the icons on proper size as having enlarged so you can see them will make your plotting more imprecise and iffy. Do you account for slowing for sharp turns with increased spacing? Do you plot multiple way-points on bends so they do not drop speed? After all that it is still a complete nightmare anyway but at least you will have done your best : ) If you are keen you might play with a couple of halftracks and see what difference being very exact makes in distance/time to see if it is really worth the effort in your time. The movement is flawed - most particulalrly in there is no follow my leader order, or, please drive along the road.!!!! What were BF thinking of? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[hirr]Leto Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Are you plotting at level 6 to check movement paths are OK. ? Are you accounting for the qualities of the crews reaction times? Have you got the icons on proper size as having enlarged so you can see them will make your plotting more imprecise and iffy. Do you account for slowing for sharp turns with increased spacing? Do you plot multiple way-points on bends so they do not drop speed? After all that it is still a complete nightmare anyway but at least you will have done your best : ) If you are keen you might play with a couple of halftracks and see what difference being very exact makes in distance/time to see if it is really worth the effort in your time. The movement is flawed - most particulalrly in there is no follow my leader order, or, please drive along the road.!!!! What were BF thinking of? Now wouldn't it be cool if you could pick a vehicle, bring up your task bar, pick a movement order, set your waypoints and then pick your second vehicles, use the 'follow' movement order, and have the second vehicle follow the first on an identical waypoint set of orders as vehicle (2) in a convoy, only by having to click the movement order onto the lead vehicle (sort of like embarking), the third vehicle clicked to follow would be (3) and the next (4) and so on, and then you would never have this problem and the time to make movements would be so much shorter. I'd pay a million dollars for that ability. Cheers! Leto 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted October 31, 2009 Author Share Posted October 31, 2009 Leto;1164699']Now wouldn't it be cool if you could pick a vehicle, bring up your task bar, pick a movement order, set your waypoints and then pick your second vehicles, use the 'follow' movement order, and have the second vehicle follow the first on an identical waypoint set of orders as vehicle (2) in a convoy, only by having to click the movement order onto the lead vehicle (sort of like embarking), the third vehicle clicked to follow would be (3) and the next (4) and so on, and then you would never have this problem and the time to make movements would be so much shorter. I'd pay a million dollars for that ability. Cheers! Leto Yes that would definitely be awesome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Leto;1164699']I'd pay a million dollars for that ability. Really? Send a check to BFC and see what they say. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 At least in CMBB you mostly run into a mess as a result of collisions. If you want the same mess without collisions try to go a moderately curved path in CM:SF. Compared to it CMBB's vehicles are more like German railroads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 At least in CMBB you mostly run into a mess as a result of collisions. If you want the same mess without collisions try to go a moderately curved path in CM:SF. Compared to it CMBB's vehicles are more like German railroads. The CMAK movement glitch that aggravated me the most was on a long straight road that had a bridge crossing a substantial river. The map is Mountain River and the bridge extends a good distance past both edges of the river. Half of my "column" (using that term very loosely) of tanks, ACs and halftracks swerved off the road at the last moment to try driving across the water without using the bridge. In broad daylight. Unopposed. GRRRR!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: Fortunately this was in a wildly imbalanced assault QB. The half of my force that did use the bridge as planned were sufficient to hold the defenders back long enough for the others to blunder their way back to the end of the bridge and drive across it on the second try. On the second attempt I used way points every 50 meters or so and that worked - slowly. I'll never understand the logic that caused so many AFVs to veer off the perfectly straight road. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 Yeah, it takes quite some time to know all the err... features of CMx1 to know how to plot vehicle pathes. And then a lot of time to plot the pathes - each time. But if it works.... having dozens of vehicles drive along a single road arriving in good order.... one of my fines moments in CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkin Muffley Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 ...one of my fines moments in CM. Slow down in a built-up area. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I played the Germans. No speeding tickets but for parking in the wrong place while waiting for the Italians 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 That was always one of my pet peeves about CMBB/CMAK, the vehicle pathfinding is dumb as rock and requires endless micromanagement. As DT mentioned, you have to micromanage the path of each vehicles, allow adequate spacing, make sure all the delays are timed properly. Also, don't try to get overly fancy and leave a good safety factor, since one wrong move/glitch can throw all your vehicles into a huge traffic jam. That is one aspect of CMx2 I really enjoy, vehicle pathfinding is much more intelligent and intuitive. Not perfect, but it requires much fewer mouse clicks than in CMx1 and you dont have to worry about your cross country movement turning into a demolition derby.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackVoid Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Use SHIFT-P to display all movement paths. Using this tool I rarely have any problems with traffic jams. Also some tricks: - use multiple waypoints for turns. - use order delay to synchronize/postpone movement if neccessary - all vehicles should start movement in the direction they are facing and turn later if neccessary 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 For those who want to go ape**** in Tebourba Engagement the designer decided to drop reinforcements on at 20 vehicles a time! SO all around the same desert road with a mix of tanks, troops, TRUCKS with green drivers!!! etc. Ordering green truck drivers when they are off-road takes forever - well 2 or 3 minutes. And of course getting "there fustest with the mostest" gets a little bit irritatating. I still think practicing with a few vehicles will repay big dividends in future games. Knowing how tanks slow in light wood is valuable, also the effects of the daft tall hedges in CMAK!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWolf BoB Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 In a CMBB scenario I'm currently working on, I have been able to get a handful of trucks to behave well by selecting the group and putting a single move line to a distant point. The section of the map has some significant woods and a bridge. I have adjusted the end point to land on the same road the trucks start on, with the result that the trucks move off in good order and find the road and bridge themselves on a line I would have selected for them. The result actually surprised me the first time it happened, I was checking reinforcements at the time and only needed them to move out of the way. I think the key is that there is a large patch of woods near the reinforcement point that blocks the immediate movement line I drew. Note that halftracks are not as cooperative and seem to want to run in the grass at the edge of the road. Diesel, I agree that scenario designers should consider what it would be like to manage the assigned reinforcements, and stagger them on successive turns if the immediate road congenstion is too great. Something I am careful with when building a scenario 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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