noxnoctum Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 When I order an Apache to area attack say a 100 meter radius unscouted area, what happens? Do they need to have spotters to engage targets or can they find their own? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 They can find their own, but generally not well hidden targets. Also target identification is limited, they will often engage knocked out vehicles that are not on fire and there is a risk of friendly fire. The area target is basically a free fire zone so keep your distance. I don't know if having the unit calling CAS able to see the area matters. They might be able to try to avoid blue and blue and point out targets, but I haven't tested that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpitfireXI Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Not to add to the complaints on air support but I just played a mission where I set an area attack up using and AH-64D and all is did was shoot rockets and cannons randomly in the area. When the game ended I saw that their were enemy trucks and troops all over the roofs of the buildings in this area perfectly unharmed nor fazed. I understand I could not directly see these troops but an Apache should be able to see troops on the roof. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 There were trucks on the roofs ? Anyway, I think chopper spotting vs buildings is a bit fuzzy, but I think I've seen them attack roofs. I don't think chopper will fire if it doesn't have a target, so that random fire sounds strange. I guess we'd need more info on the situation to see if it was a bug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 note that you also need to keep friendly troops at least 400-500 meters away from the outer edge of the "area target" if you want to avoid "Blue on Blue" incidents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 When 'area fire' works it works, when it doesn't it doesn't. It either saves my bacon or spends all its time shooting up abandoned pickups. I'm not entirely sure how airpower self-targets. It seems if the unit is moving its chance of being spotted/targeted goes up exponentially. But sometimes 'area fire' airpower targets that hidden vehicle wedged into an alleyway between highrises! Its on of the great imponderables. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I had an Apache shoot up nothing but destroyed vehicles using area fire. All the live ones were ignored. Most annoying. Aren't Apache's supposed to have optics capable of identifying and engaging targets several miles away? I suppose it could be a poor pilot in that particular scenario I was playing but these useless area fire orders seem to be very common. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meade95 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 +1 - I find Helo CAS to be almost not worth going to more often than not - Hopefully tweaked some in the up coming 1.21 patch... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 That's weird. Sorry to once again be on the cheerleading squad but I almost always get good results from them. Yup, they are pretty keen to destroy empty vehicles, but I think that's fair enough. Deprived of the chance to bag a vehicle they are very effective against any target. Even infantry in buildings aren't safe. The only thing I wouldn't mind seeing changed is that they should stay on the attack instead of intermittent attacks. The whole point of attack helicopers is their ability to hug a ridgeline a few miles away raining death. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Some scenarios, airpower unit quality was deliberately dropped to give the poor red side a fighting chance. After all, this isn't meant to be an "aircraft kills everthing while the infantry sits around" simulation. If you're seeing mediocre results in a particular scenario it could very well be because you've got a green unmotovated pilot at the controls. I don't really know if there are any scenarios that have elite fanatic pilots flying excellent equipment with full bomb loads at your disposal. There might be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 If you're seeing mediocre results in a particular scenario it could very well be because you've got a green unmotovated pilot at the controls. Could this perhaps be the key contributing factor to instances where a fixed-wing air-support asset is listed as "Attacking" in the UI and loses one tick of ammo afterwards but no bomb drops? Is an "attack" in which no bomb is dropped but which decreases the aircraft's loadout meant to simulate a dud bomb or a failure of the pylon clamps to release or something else? Would setting an air-support asset's equipment to "Poor" after purchase yield failed JDAM drops and dud Hellfire launches, etc.? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Some scenarios, airpower unit quality was deliberately dropped to give the poor red side a fighting chance. After all, this isn't meant to be an "aircraft kills everthing while the infantry sits around" simulation. If you're seeing mediocre results in a particular scenario it could very well be because you've got a green unmotovated pilot at the controls. I don't really know if there are any scenarios that have elite fanatic pilots flying excellent equipment with full bomb loads at your disposal. There might be. THAT would explain a few things lol. I bought a "SF team" for a scenario and then some choppers. And damn did those choppers kill stuff. I though they were just having a good day... Aside for going after dead vehicles, they generally have been pretty effective for me all the time. Sometimes a JDAM gets wasted on two guys hiding in the grass (Nice shot btw ), but usually they kill a decent amount of stuff. Especially the choppers cutting up infantry with their guns (or the A-10s which just rain death on anything that moves). The target prioritization can be odd, when they ignore an APC to shoot up troops, but I can't really complain as on average they do pretty well. Could this perhaps be the key contributing factor to instances where a fixed-wing air-support asset is listed as "Attacking" in the UI and loses one tick of ammo afterwards but no bomb drops? Is an "attack" in which no bomb is dropped but which decreases the aircraft's loadout meant to simulate a dud bomb or a failure of the pylon clamps to release or something else? Would setting an air-support asset's equipment to "Poor" after purchase yield failed JDAM drops and dud Hellfire launches, etc.? I don't think I've ever seen that, but it could be possible. It would make sense as long a as it wasn't too frequent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 The only thing I wouldn't mind seeing changed is that they should stay on the attack instead of intermittent attacks. Helos don't do that when there is any kind of AA threat around. Even now they don't like to hover in areas where the enemy might have HMGs around, because even those are perfectly capable of ****ing a helo up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Disagree. In a conventional war an attack helicopter is supposed to use stealth and it's stand off capability to stay out of trouble. Not speed. Only reason helicopters move like they do in Iraq and Afghanistan is that they fear the golden BB and RPGs. In a MANPADS environment speed won't save a helicopter. Being behind trees/hills/buildings on the nominally friendly side of a frontline will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Disagree. In a conventional war an attack helicopter is supposed to use stealth and it's stand off capability to stay out of trouble. Not speed. Only reason helicopters move like they do in Iraq and Afghanistan is that they fear the golden BB and RPGs. In a MANPADS environment speed won't save a helicopter. Being behind trees/hills/buildings on the nominally friendly side of a frontline will. Movement does not exclude standoff or stealth for helicopters. For MANPADS there are other, more reliable, countermeasures. But nobody just hovers in one spot. That's begging for any halfway competent gunner to cause mechanics or grave's registration more work. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3928378457683897318# --- Cobras in OIF 1 (notice all the tracked vehicles being shot up). Notice none of them are hovering. Even when employing TOWs; which work only marginally well when moving. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Excellent Cobra video. Very cheerful song, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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