It ain't half hot mum

[Paper Tiger]

making progress but this is possibly the most insane scenario ever devised

LOL. You might find this hard to believe but I was very worried that this mission would prove to be too easy. Once I got it 'balanced' and got some good feedback from flamingknives, I advanced BLUE's reinforcement schedule and increased the mission length from 1 hour 50 minutes to the full 2 hours (these two changes combined resulted in an effective increase of 20 minutes to the mission time). Since I could force a Syrian surrender in the earlier version, I figured those two changes would make the mission a bit too easy.

BTW, I never did better than a Minor British Victory but then, I'm hopeless at the house to house fighting and tend to rush into it and my casualties go through the roof. However, I return to this one to learn from time to time. I usually get a very satisfying fire fight for the mosque going as the sun goes down.

[birdstrike]

Zombie troopers, I tells you! :eek:

I found that the only way to make sure one of those pesky roof MGs is taken out once and for all (besides a shot in the head of course) is to fire until there is a visible hole in the roof or until the upper floor(s) collapse.

[Wiggum]

After i realised that with this force...only crazy people would take that city...i decided to only kill these HMG's (took me nearly all the time) and detect some targets for the airforce to shot at.

I get a loose...but i feal like the winner because i only took 3 KIA and 8 WIA !

And the enemy lost all in all 100 Man.

[Pvt. Ryan]

If you can get the snipers in close enough, they can take out a lot of the enemy.

[cartertools]

I managed to get a surrender- Minor Victory. Didn't go near the school, didn't worry about damaging the hospital, avoided taking casualties...I had good success prepositioning troops in the 2nd floors but hiding them until I started a mass onslaught. Infiltrated and encircled.

[Paper Tiger]

I'm very glad to read that because that's not the way I did it. And it's good news because it means that there is more than one way to win the mission. Congratulations...

[tecumseh]

I'm been reborn into CMSF after discovering patches + packs + this mission = totally awesome.

Glad to hear others are finding it hard. I'm starting my second attempt after I lost too many troops for my conscience to let me continue.

[ade670]

I have been trying different methods in this scenario and still cannot get a win!!!

These are my main points that seem to work.

1. Observers plus HQ in the shed area works well - good field of vision

2. Left hand bridge + push up that flank is best way of gaining ground.

3. Apaches are good at clearing HMGs and also the recoiless at the back

4. Snipers are useful for supressing HMGs when advancing platoons

5. Fire support can advance up left flank at speed and adopt an overwatch allowing troops to move under supressing fire

6. use Recce troops to gain a foothold just before bridge - mortar fire is good for clearing troops out of the building.

[Pvt. Ryan]

I have noticed that troops on roofs are really hard to kill in other scenarios as well. I wonder if something changed with 1.20.

[tecumseh]

I got a tactical defeat as well, after I called a ceasefire with 20 minutes left. I'd already suffered 34 casualties and didn't feel I could take the rest of the central block without a whole lot more, since my Apaches were out of ammo. My boys had seen enough horror for one day. So I wussed out, dug in and called for reinforcements!

Brutal stuff, but great fun. Thanks paper tiger

[Paper Tiger]

It sounds like ade670 plays the mission pretty much the same way I do and I have great success with that approach.

SPOILERS

The southern orchard is an EXCELLENT place to park some WMIKs and Jackals once the HMG threat has been significantly reduced. From there, they can area fire pretty much everything as your troops approach Block C, the North Yard and the buildings behind the school. I generally take very few casualties before I begin to assault the two main objectives in the town centre. That's when I start to get careless and turn a potential Tactical Victory into a Minor Victory or a Draw

[bodkin]

Paper Tigers scenarios are known for there frustratingly hard urban combat.

But in the spirit of the name of this mission you should listen to this to calm your nerves.

This guy was always seen as a comic actor in 'It aint half hot mum' until we heard his real voice, Susan Boyle doesn't rate against Lofty.

[birdstrike]

Of course, he'd look less like a dork without that hat.

People usually expect the face to go with the voice - and vice versa.

That said, I guess Ol' Blue Eyes would probably have a harder time these days, aswell.

[ade670]

Guys,

I am putting together a mission diary of my attack on Persik (It ain't Half Hot Mum).

I would appreciate any feedback - With 1 hr in I have made good progress and can now force myself into the town.

See link:

http://worldatwar.eu/index.php?location=wardiaries&sublocation=〈=3&refcode=0&categoryid=&articleid=0&diaryid=563&boardpage=0

Ade

[Paper Tiger]

Wow. Looks good. I haven't the time to read it all in detail but it looks like your doing just fine. There are a couple of things that v1.21 will clear up.

I'm going to regret naming that town Persik. It's the last name of a famous Indonesian dancer and she's just got divorced for the second time this morning. If she does a search on the Internet to see how people are reacting to the news, she'll find 'Attack on Persik'. Poor girl...

[Frankster65]

Beautifully done Ade670. I'm going to have to bookmark that one.

[bodkin]

Has anyone had a win on this scenario since 1.21 and this change:

'Soldiers tire more quickly moving across difficult terrain or in very hot weather'

Just interested if anyone has had any success, I thought it was diabolically hard before the patch.

Paper Tiger, have mercy on my gaming soul.

[souldierz]

This one sounds tough and interesting, I'm gonna give it a crack when I get the chance.

[souldierz]

Now I fully understand the meaning of the title.Bit of a sarcastic tittle:).

That heat is really getting to those troops.So far I had to walk them everywhere.I had to laugh, because at one point I ordered a Platoon to assault across a field and I turned the camera away for 10 seconds, When I turned back the whole Platoon switched orders on me and was walking normally through the field and I could have swore I saw one of the pixel troops flip me the bird, and then hear him say "It's bloody hot down here and you want me to run across that miserable field in this gear?Are you bloody mad man!?Screw that! I don't care how many times you push that freaking button, I'm walking,Wanker!":D

That map is as beautiful as it is tough.This mission is gonna be a real hard fight against the elements as well as against the enemy while trying to preserve the urban areas.I'm happy I increased the time limit to 4 hrs, think I'm gonna need it.

The song title '96 degrees in the shade' comes to mind when playing this mission:cool:.

Edit-Oh and where the hell is that bloody spotter(don't tell me) lol.He's gonna make my troops die of exhaustion more then anything else, but he's getting more and more accurate as the mission proceeds and my troops keep getting more and more tired.The math of the situation is not looking good:eek:.

[TheVulture]

Now I fully understand the meaning of the title.Bit of a sarcastic tittle:).

"It ain't half hot Mum" was also the name of a 1970's British comedy series about the British army in the far east in WWII. Well, not about the army as such, but about some soldiers in a comedy acting troupe who put on entertainment for the real soldiers.

[Paper Tiger]

Yup, that's right. The 70s tv show. I was brought up on that and I loved Windsor Davies' Sergeant Major...

I should really have a look at this one again sometime soon as the v1.21 patch will have made it more difficult to complete in the allocated time. Let me know how you get on souldierz.

[souldierz]

I should really have a look at this one again sometime soon as the v1.21 patch will have made it more difficult to complete in the allocated time. Let me know how you get on souldierz.

Will do Paper Tiger.

It took me a little over an hour if not more to get my men close to the river safely while neutralizing contacts on the way.Most are completely exhausted and I cannot push further.When the troops are tired it makes it very tough and time consuming to adjust plans.Men get tired fast so when I proceed I got to make sure it's the best move, because retracing your steps or going back is not an option with that heat.So far I secured the one side of the river from hostiles and only took one casualty.The sun is continuing to go down and it's becoming dark.When it get's dark or a little darker, I think that's when I will push past the bridges or just use the one.

I was unwise and used up my mortar asset and can no longer call in smoke for support to cross the bridge, so I'm kind of stumped right now on how I will proceed.Those men tire quickly and without smoke to cover their movements they might end up gassing out while running across the bridge and get picked off.The smoke rounds for the C2 mortar teams is also low, but I managed to get some supply trucks up near the men by the river.No easy task and along the way I was praying an ATGM wouldn't take it out or I would be screwed for ammo.

This mission is a huge challenge.Its an endurance and logistics nightmare(and by all means that's why I like it even more).The Player has all the elements against him, but might be able to take advantage of the up coming darkness to close and clear out the city without wasting to much time by getting bogged down by the enemy in the distance.Think I found a mission that will last me close to 4hrs.I'm close, if not past the 2 hour mark now, but I suspect things to move more quickly at night and in town.Closing with the river was real tough and slow and the troops take a while to catch their breath to move on.Also calling In air support to clean out some enemy positions so I can move up supplies and troops proved to be time consuming as well.I also can't forget the enemy arty either.

So far I'm loving the mission in every way,It's a real head scratcher and brain burner.The Syrians have an advantage in all aspects and every move has to be a calculated step to bring me closer to the objectives.I think this is the first mission I come across that the greater distance between the two armies is favored by the Syrians and not the Brits.If any1 said playing the blue side was easy,they obviously did not play this mission.Good work and well done and I wouldn't change a thing but the original time.:cool:

I got a quick questions though.

With the sun going down and night time starting to emerge,will my troops still get exhausted quickly or will the the night time help cool them off and them keep their endurance up?

If they still remain extremely tired,then I will start to worry about the progression of this mission.It will prove to be very hard, but I'll try to finish the mission no matter what.I will post results and what I did when I'm finished.

[Paper Tiger]

I don't think the temperature will fall after the sun goes down. If it's set to Extreme Heat at the start, it will stay that way until the end, whenver that might be.

It does sound like the v1.21 patch has busted this mission. Are you running across the wheatfields? In v1.20, they could run across the wheatfields in front of their DP but after that, I'd walk them carefully to the half way point. That took up most of the first hour. then they would be fresh for the assault on the objectives.

I'm working very hard on something new just now and don't really want to stop and go back and play this mission in full just now so any feedback will be appreciated.

[souldierz]

Well that was tough.

That's the first mission I came across that lasted more then 4hrs.I almost completed it to, just another 30mins LOL.Knowing what I know now I might be able to complete it under 4hrs(of coarse it would be like that for any mission), but I think It would be next to impossible to finish the mission with the original time limit.The troops get exhausted quickly and take a while to recover.They ended up walking everywhere to save breath and could only quick run from one building to the next, if they were close.Maybe someone else with a faster and different strategy could have gotten better results, but for me personally this mission took a lot of time.The fatigue of the Brits dictated the pace of the mission and If I pushed harder I probably could have covered more ground, but would have took heavy casualties that might have made me lose.

When a Brits team were fully rested and then ordered to Quick run across the eastern field from the starting area to the Central Store House, they made it to about 135 meters before they started to walk(that's close to about halfway across the Eastern Field going West).Another squad that was full endurance with rested status was ordered to Fast run across the same field same direction.They made in 20 meters before switching to quick run,then in quick run mode they made it another 100m before they started to walk, giving them a total of 120 meters under the Fast run command.I don't know how much time it took for them to recover, but it was a lot.Well over 5 minutes I believe,maybe even well past 10 mins and they would gas out quickly when ordered to run again.It was rare that the Brits made it back up to the rested status, so almost every 30-50 meters or so they would get very tired and exhausted if they ran.When the sun went down it didn't seem like it had any effect on the troops either.

SPOILER

Ammo was slim to none at the end of it.Some squads were completely dry while others were down to their last rounds.I spent most of the ammo clearing those high walled compounds.I had to go in guns blazing even if the buildings turned out to be empty, I found that the enemy would be waiting to ambush the Brits in most of the building they stepped foot in so I didn't want to take any chances and laid down a lot of area fire.Even the heavy MG's and 40mm grenade launchers were out of ammo by the end of the mission.The Cobra runs did knock some buildings down and there was a bit of damage in various spots of the city.Most damage was outside the preserve zones,but 3 buildings near the Central Block were destroyed.

That heat was unbearable for the Brits and that was seen in the first few meters they traveled.2nd Platoon walked South on the dirt road with 2 jackals to the main road near the South orchard.From there the 2 Jackals secured the crossroads area setting up a checkpoint while 2nd Platoon walked west up the road towards the Central Store House.2 Sections went up the south side of the road to keep an eye on the South orchard to make sure they didn't get flanked and 1 Section and HQ moved up the North side.2nd Platoon was tasked with moving to and clearing the Central Store House.When that was achieved, 3rd Platoon and Command units would move to that location and half the snipers and FO's, MG's and 40mm Grenade launchers would set up on the roofs.The other half would set up on the South Orchard banks beside the main road just in front of the Central Storage House.

Cobras would be constantly called in to do gun runs while the British forces moved and also a couple bombs were dropped by fixed wing support.2 bombs completely missed their targets and landed harmlessly in the open.

1st Platoon with 1 Section of Pioneers would walk all the way to the South end of the South Orchard from the start area.From there they would walk West in column formation in an attempt to avoid mines to close proximity of the garage near the South bridge named Sable and get locked into a firefight.The pioneers suffered a casualty but all Syrian forces in the garage buildings would be shot down.1st Platoon would then secure the Garage area near the South bridge named Sable and hold after another brief fire fight with forces on the other side of river West of them.

2nd and 3rd Platoon then moved from the Central Store House along the main road with the 40mmGL,Sniper,MG's and FO teams that were positioned on the Central Storage House rooftops.They then crossed into the South Orchard under smoke cover from C2 mortars and proceeded to walk to the West end of the South Orchard and set up a wide front by the South Orchards West end banks.From there 1st, 2nd and 3rd Platoon now had a front line from South to North along the river inside the South Orchard with heavy weapons supporting them.A heavy bomb was previously called in on the Tool Sheds located near the North bridge named Ermine and destroyed the middle house with a fantastic explosion.Enemy still remained in the the 2 remaining Tool Shed houses and a Fierce firefight broke out with them as well as with enemy forces located just on the other side of the bridge Ermine.The British had overwhelming firepower pouring into the Tool Sheds and shot the enemy located in the Tool Sheds as they tried to flee.The enemy firing from the other side of the bridge has been neutralized also.The Brits at this point have now cleared the whole East side of the 2 bridges.

The Brits were ordered to suppress any suspected targets on the other side of the river and also to lay down smoke cover, so that a couple Utility vehicles under the lead of a Jackal from the crossroad area were able to drive down the dirt road in the South orchard and not be shot at.They made it successfully and from this point all heavy weapons as well as Sniper teams, Scout teams and FO teams would move and set up positions along the West end of the South orchard.That now frees up 1st,2nd and 3rd platoon to move and resupply so they could cross over the river to the west near the South bridge Sable, with the assault Pioneers following behind.

The way the Brits moved forward from here, was by using platoon bounding over watch.One Platoon would move to secure the buildings leading west up the hill or a specific piece of terrain, another Platoon while they rested in place would provid over watch as best they can and then they would proceed to secure the next set of buildings or piece of terrain while the other Platoons rested.I tried to use the leap frog tactic in order to rest the troops as best I can while trying to maintain a steady assault.Sometimes it worked and men gained their breath,but sometimes it didn't.Most of the time the Brits were switching between tired and exhausted status and were in constant firefights as they moved.

When The British Platoons secured the South end of the area of operation, the same Bounding over watch tactic was used to clear out the compounds as the Brits shifted North.Some cases men were to tired to run across the open and had to walk, as they walked 1 or 2 British troops were shot.Clearing the compounds and houses became a very tedious and violent task.A few more British troops would get shot and then the clearing of compounds were stepped up a notch and became very aggressive.

The British assault was moving fairly rapid in the close urban environments due to the necessity of assaulting enemies located very close to the Brits positions as they moved.Walls were demolished by the Pioneers and Platoons would look to secure the compounds as quick as possible.Most enemy were found in awkward angles and waiting to ambush, so some fire fights were hard to finish quickly.Eventually the Syrian forces would get pushed back as the Brits moved forward.After a hard paced firefight and as progress was being made to secure the Central Block and Mosque area, time ran out.The Brits were Exhausted and dangerously low on ammo.If the game were to continue and if victory were to be achieved, another ammo run would have been needed as well as a much deserved rest.

The picture below is the end of mission and whats left of enemy on map.The enemy C2 and fireteam near the North bridge were about to be killed by Cobra rockets.Don't know why I didn't call it in sooner.

The victory points were as follows,

British Forces

West block-0pts

Central block- 0pts

South Block- 50pts

Preserve Mosque- 50pts

Preserve School- 25pts(There was no damage to the school that could be seen, but there was a lot of grenades used to clear the area and also some AT launchers were used,think that's where i lost pts)

Preserve Hospital- 25pts

Enemy Casualties- 0pts

The Syrians got 50 pts for the West Block and 31 pts for enemy casualties.

Great Mission and map Paper Tiger, but I think common thought would be that a tweak might be needed because of fatigue.I found this mission to be a big challenge, because of the troop exhaustion.I suspect that the v1.21 patch has busted this mission in certain ways.Walking those troops around was a different experience that required a lot of time and gave no room for error, but I doubt that how it turned out now was the experience originally intended.I could see how this could be a frustrating mission to solve.This is by far the longest mission I ever played on CMSF.Even with the grueling task of moving while exhausted and constantly on the edge of losing ammo, I can honestly say I very much liked this mission.Very hard task to complete.At times I wondered if I was moving to slow and if there were areas I could have used time better, but over all It went fairly well and I felt I proceeded the best I could under the circumstances.If anyone gets good results with the way the mission is now,post it, I would love to know how you did it and where I could have done better.Now I'm gonna go back and read what other people did in this forum:).I only read a few post's, because I didn't want to spoil the mission by knowing what to expect.

I'm very tired myself at this point and could be missing out on some key details of the mission that might want to be known,so if any further details want to be known about what the experiences of the mission were, go ahead and ask and I'll do my best to answer.

[Paper Tiger]

Well, that's probably the best result I've ever seen for this mission. You were SO CLOSE to triggering the AI surrender and if you'd gotten that, with your Friendly casualties, that would have given you a Total British Victory. Of course, you doubled the length of the scenario so that would help quite a bit.

I'll have a look at this one again later this week as it sounds like a tweak is needed to restore the original balance. I might have to undo the Brits' at-start Fatigue setting as most start out Tired already.