Marines Campaign

[SpitfireXI]

As I just started the campaign with the USMC I am shocked to see so many missions with a huge lack to AT support. Some of the battles are just suicide with the forces you are expected to fight with and against. The briefings even mention the enemy tank forces and then give you very little to fight with. Was this done as a way to rebalance the game after complaints with the initial game?

[Atago]

Some of the Marines missions are quite a pain (see my recent post name campaign for the future). My take is that there are some very good players out there that were finding the Army campaign missions too easy so they amped things up to keep/make them happy. This made some of the missions very, very hard even on the easy setting for me. That being said I did complete the Marine campaign and mostly enjoyed it - but it was hard and very frustrating at times! I had to run the Pooh one many times and cheat badly (restarting with map with screen shots showing enemy locations and such )

Maybe we need a way to run online training classes for a novice like me that doesn't have the time to spend (or patience!) to really work at figuring out how to win.

[Sequoia]

The Strategy and Tactics Forum has some good stickied post that I think all those new to the game should read, even those familiar with earlier combat mision games.

[Battlefront.com]

I think this is more perception than anything. The Marines are definitely lacking the sorts of super heavy, hard hitting AT weapons found in HBCT and, to some extent, SBCT... however, they definitely have quite a lot of low level AT capabilities.

HBCT Battalions have massive AT power in the form of Bradleys and Abrams. Between Bradleys and a Javelin for every Squad, the Mech Infantry Companies are inseparably loaded with massive AT capabilities. Abrams are almost always present too. Nobody else can come close to this amount of firepower.

SBCT Rifle Companies have Javelins for every squad with MGS as a backup AT weapon. In theory there is also a platoon of Stryker MGS available for each Battalion, but since those are Brigade level they aren't that likely to be seen.

The Marines, however, are only "rich" with AT weapons when viewed as a part of an MEU. The majority of the AT capabilities coming from Humvee mounted TOW-2 ATGM. When you get down to a single Marines Rifle Company, however, it only has a couple of Javelins as its primary AT capability. However, each Rifle Platoon is by default augmented with two SMAWs allocated from the Battalion's Weapons Company. While not nearly as effective as the Javelin, they are quite useful.

What this means is that the Marines have a pretty decent AT capability no matter what. But to get BIG hitters in action the scenario designer has to allocate Regimental assets or the Battalion's single CAAT Platoon (with 6x TOW-2s). Those things should be present in the average scenario only on rare occasions.

So unless the scenario is mixing in higher level support units, the Marines are pretty light on AT capabilities beyond rifle range. The exception being the two Javelins, which according to General Murphy, will in the wrong place at the wrong time

Steve

[Field Marshal Blücher]

So unless the scenario is mixing in higher level support units, the Marines are pretty light on AT capabilities beyond rifle range. The exception being the two Javelins, which according to General Murphy, will in the wrong place at the wrong time

Heh. I can only recall playing a handful of scenarios out of the dozens of Marines scens that I've played that have Javs in them.

[dan/california]

The Marines module is an amazingly effective add for M-32 grenade launchers by their presence, and Javelins by their absence. I would heartily recommend it to the manufacturers of both.

[dan/california]

Any chance of getting the XM-25 grenade launcher to play with before CMSF2? Pretty Please? Maybe?

One slightly odd thing is that the Marine vehicles seem to have lots of Javelin missiles so all they are lacking is an adequate supply of CLUs. Is this a game artifact or the actual TO&E?

[Field Marshal Blücher]

One slightly odd thing is that the Marine vehicles seem to have lots of Javelin missiles so all they are lacking is an adequate supply of CLUs. Is this a game artifact or the actual TO&E?

Actual TO&E. USMC has special Javelin teams that are the only teams assigned CLUs.

[Atago]

Those Hummer armed with TOW's are mostly cannon fodder as far as I can tell. Even parked and waiting for the enemy to show they frequently get whacked without ever seeing what hit-em.

The Marines trade anti-infantry firepower for anti-tank firepower though they do seem quite capable once the enemy tanks get closer.

[Battlefront.com]

The XM-25 is a dead project. Something might come about later, but XM-8 and XM-25 are both toast.

Steve

[dan/california]

I have read a couple of different places that the XM-25 has been resurrected.

Here

http://www.gizmag.com/xm-25-us-army-smart-weapon/11807/

and here, for instance.

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/004440.html

[Bulgaroktonos]

I think this is more perception than anything. The Marines are definitely lacking the sorts of super heavy, hard hitting AT weapons found in HBCT and, to some extent, SBCT... however, they definitely have quite a lot of low level AT capabilities.

HBCT Battalions have massive AT power in the form of Bradleys and Abrams. Between Bradleys and a Javelin for every Squad, the Mech Infantry Companies are inseparably loaded with massive AT capabilities. Abrams are almost always present too. Nobody else can come close to this amount of firepower.

SBCT Rifle Companies have Javelins for every squad with MGS as a backup AT weapon. In theory there is also a platoon of Stryker MGS available for each Battalion, but since those are Brigade level they aren't that likely to be seen.

The Marines, however, are only "rich" with AT weapons when viewed as a part of an MEU. The majority of the AT capabilities coming from Humvee mounted TOW-2 ATGM. When you get down to a single Marines Rifle Company, however, it only has a couple of Javelins as its primary AT capability. However, each Rifle Platoon is by default augmented with two SMAWs allocated from the Battalion's Weapons Company. While not nearly as effective as the Javelin, they are quite useful.

SMAWs are awesome anti-armor weapons. Here is a very enlightening diagram of what the SMAW can do (click to enlarge):

What this means is that the Marines have a pretty decent AT capability no matter what. But to get BIG hitters in action the scenario designer has to allocate Regimental assets or the Battalion's single CAAT Platoon (with 6x TOW-2s). Those things should be present in the average scenario only on rare occasions.

So unless the scenario is mixing in higher level support units, the Marines are pretty light on AT capabilities beyond rifle range. The exception being the two Javelins, which according to General Murphy, will in the wrong place at the wrong time

Steve

Let's not forget Close Air Support, an intrinsic part of any Marine Expeditionary Force. At a company level, if the CO has access to a radio or one of the battalion's three Forward Air Controllers, he can bring a whole lot of hurt to his location awfully quickly, provided there are aircraft on-line and in the air to heed the call. A good example of this can be seen in Capt. Eddie S. Ray's defence of the 1st Marine Division Forward Command Post on 25 February 1991 in which he helped coordinate multiple Cobra strikes. Admittedly, Syria is a much larger operation than Kuwait, but the fact still stands that if there is a real need for the aircraft, the Direct Air Support Center can put any and all necessary air assets in the hands of a company commander with high priority, and/or his FAC, and keep eliminating targets until there are none left for the aircraft to deal with.

That's how it works doctrinally anyway...

And let's not forget that the Marine Corps will not intentionally pit one of its infantry or AAV companies against enemy Armor assets, so I wouldn't worry about them too much.

[dan/california]

"And let's not forget that the Marine Corps will not intentionally pit one of its infantry or AAV companies against enemy Armor assets, so I wouldn't worry about them too much."

The enemy occasionally gets a vote on these issues too, though. Thats why they are called the enemy.

Given the Javelins outstanding performance, and the fact that the CLU is an excellent recce asset regardless of what you are fighting, it seems to me that the Navies budget could stretch to one per platoon or so. Just my two cents

[costard]

Those Hummer armed with TOW's are mostly cannon fodder as far as I can tell. Even parked and waiting for the enemy to show they frequently get whacked without ever seeing what hit-em.

The Marines trade anti-infantry firepower for anti-tank firepower though they do seem quite capable once the enemy tanks get closer.

Atago, the TOW Hummers are awesome anti-armour in built up maps - nimble and light, perfect for navigating tight alleyways.