News from the Brits Module & Patch 1.2?

[JP76er]

JP76er,

Normally I wouldn't do something like this publicly, but since you just slammed us I felt obligated to research the matter and now feel obligated to set the record as straight as I can under the limitations of customer confidentiality.

I checked with the two people that do customer support and they provided me with a 90k sized transcript of all the emails back and forth. Since you've decided to slam us for that interaction perhaps you wouldn't mind if I posted the entire and unedited emails and let people judge for themselves what really happened? I'm confident that if people read the entire interaction they will have a completely different opinion of our customer service than how you characterized it.

Exactly. Please keep that in mind the next time you ask for help and people are promptly, and diligently, trying to provide it to you.

Steve

Really Steve?

I have all of the emails between me & Martin the self proclaimed "El Presidente". I really don't think you want to release those as I'm sure you don't want me to release mine. I also can supply them at anytime. All of them with the headings. His emails were condescending from the get go. I have every one of his. Every one of mine plus his answers to all of them. You need to be slammed for this. It was very poor customer service. I even grouped all of the emails & sent the entire conversations to every single contact you had/have on your site. After that I received a very short email back from Martin that he HAD NOT read my last two replies & considered the matter closed. I heard nothing else from any person in your company. It was poor customer service in the same mode that you were ripping your customers from complaining no matter what you said about the Brit module. I was hoping that my dealings with Martin were a bad one time deal then I read your reply in this forum. You're wrong & you know it. You're smart in expressing the rights of customer confidentiality even though releasing the emails would show how shoddy things were handled plus show that your reply in this forum is a smoke screen. I have never revealed my copies of the emails to anyone. I love your games & have dealt with many members here on scenarios, questions, etc. THAT is a good experience. Just remember, I kept everything & can prove it. I know you don't want me to release those to anyone.

[Scipio]

We are not going to go back to a specific round tweaking UI. It's not necessary nor is it worth our time to code. What I do hope to do is get the equipment that is affected by the settings to be broken up into categories. For example, for vehicles having AP, HE, and "Special" setting. For foot units there would be a category for Small Arms, Grenades, AT Weapons. The values, if this happens, will be Fuzzy values like in the game now. This makes coding a lot easier for us and automatically portable from one setting to the next. It also gives players what they occasionally need, such as downgrading or upgrading specific types of ammo to fit in with a scenario concept.

Steve

Sounds great ! Maybe the fuzzy values can be a little bit more expanded, too, so ammo values can be preset from 0 - 100% in steps of 20%?

[Moon]

Oh really?

Yes really.

This is completely off-topic to the rest of the thread, so if you would like to post my "condescending emails" in public in order to try to substantiate your claims, you have my permission to do so, but please use a new thread. Just make sure you post them complete and uncommented, thank you.

Before doing so, please consider that we're dealing with dozens of customers through our support each day; I wonder why are you not seeing dozens or hundreds of complaints about our shoddy customer support here? Instead will find a bunch of compliments, and we get even more via email and via the helpdesk, thanking us for speedy responses and good service.

I know you don't want me to release those to anyone.

Truth is, I don't really care much. While it's not nice of you to make the claims you do without proof, your posts here are already giving a good hint of what's "inside" so that I am comfortable with you not posting them, as much as I am with you posting them.

[MarkEzra]

Mark, I checked again, we are both right

And THAT surprises me not at all. And something else we agree on is the random zero out of some weapons ammo.

[JP76er]

Yes really.

This is completely off-topic to the rest of the thread, so if you would like to post my "condescending emails" in public in order to try to substantiate your claims, you have my permission to do so, but please use a new thread. Just make sure you post them complete and uncommented, thank you.

Before doing so, please consider that we're dealing with dozens of customers through our support each day; I wonder why are you not seeing dozens or hundreds of complaints about our shoddy customer support here? Instead will find a bunch of compliments, and we get even more via email and via the helpdesk, thanking us for speedy responses and good service.

Truth is, I don't really care much. While it's not nice of you to make the claims you do without proof, your posts here are already giving a good hint of what's "inside" so that I am comfortable with you not posting them, as much as I am with you posting them.

All well & good. I know how you handled it & you know how you handled it. I have all the emails, I never once showed them to anyone. I have dealt with several people on here & through emails & kept that up as a positive point on this game & the fans of it. I never once even hinted on how I was treated. I wrote it off as dealing with a person who doesn't have the stuff to deal with a customer on a competent level. That is still quite obvious on how you are now checking in. "Truthfully, I don't really care much." Believe me, I understood that from you when I sent in my customer service request & I read your very 1st reply. You know how you handled my request, not a complaint, & you think you handled that professionally as a customer service? Go back & read my 1st email again asking you for your help. I was courteous. I was not complaining. Read your response to the very 1st email. How many emails did it take before you finally gave me the information I had asked for? You could have gave it to me in 30 seconds, one email & then call me anything you wanted privately. Instead, you chose to be rude from the very 1st email. See how professional you handled it. Show it to everyone at Battlefront. I dealt with the public every single day in my career & not once did I treat them badly or speak to them in a condescending way. The largest job I dealt with was around 5,000 customers, not dozens. Sailed through that & that was only one project. You're right, this is off topic. Steve ripping people for “complaining” was very off topic as a representative of a company. Maybe you should post a new thread with all the compliments you're getting? How about even posting the complaints you receive? Just make sure you post them complete and uncommented, thank you. You personally & Steve are consistent on how you deal with your customers. Badly. Remember, I do have proof & I know that peeves you. Steve is the one who brought up posting emails, I didn't. He didn't do it for one really good reason & you know what that is as a business, but he also didn't post them because it would show exactly how poorly you handled a simple request. I will return to just a fan of the game & continue to post unless I’m booted. As I wrote you in one of my emails, I’m not going off & saying I’ll never buy another product from Battlefront. I enjoy Shock Force & will continue to do so. I will buy the Brit module when it’s released. It’s very easy to look past your faults. To me, people posting or complaining on updates for one of your games is a good thing. You know they like your product. You know they are waiting to purchase the new module. I’m sure it gets annoying; just remember they wouldn’t be here unless they were excited about your product. Bash them privately instead of a public forum. You avoid customers bashing back.

[Moon]

Remember, I do have proof & I know that peeves you.

No, it doesn't at all. Please give me permission to post it in a separate thread, thanks.

[Battlefront.com]

JP76er,

He didn't do it for one really good reason & you know what that is as a business, but he also didn't post them because it would show exactly how poorly you handled a simple request.

No, I didn't post them because it would be a gross violation of customer service policy and "netiquite" to post your private correspondence without your permission. Which is why we've asked you to give us permission to post everything so people can judge for themselves. Therefore, it is obvious that we feel your characterization of the exchange is incorrect. Your lack of permission to post clearly demonstrates that you know, deep down inside, that you are in the wrong here.

Now, besides all that you are in violation of Forum rules. You've made a rather strongly aggressive claim about something which has nothing to do with this thread's topic. This is considered "Troll" behavior. When you first posted your rather obnoxious post I gave you the benefit of the doubt, checked into it, and quite frankly was not surprised to find out that your attitude (as it has been shown here) is extremely unproductive. So I'm going to give you a choice:

1. Give me permission to post the entire series of emails, from the beginning and without edits, to let people judge for themselves how things went.

2. Don't give us permission, stop posting about the exchange. If you ever bring it up again, you'll be banished.

3. Don't give us permission, continue to violate the rules by attacking us without justification, and be banished for it.

If you REALLY feel that you're in the right on this one, then the choice is rather obvious. Opt for Choice #1 and let us shoot ourselves in the foot. Otherwise, the other two Choices are there for you to select from.

We may not be a democracy here, but we do bend over backwards to allow people to have their say in a reasonable way. However, there is a limit to our patience and you've reached it.

BTW, I in no way "bashed" our customers. I simply stated the facts that no matter what we do regarding a release date someone complains about how we go about things. I'm not angry or even annoyed by it, just pointing out that there's definitely no way to do it which will make everybody happy.

Steve

[JP76er]

No, it doesn't at all. Please give me permission to post it in a separate thread, thanks.

Sure it peeves you. You're hiding behind customer confidentiality & rightfully so. You can't do that without giving away my personal information. Another smoke screen. Why don't you wrap up your defense of your actions, forward that on to me in an email, copying all of Battlefront's staff of course & we can continue our discussion? That way, I know who is reading what. Ask for anyone that can prove that I have let them read my saved documentation. You can't, I never have. Handle it professionally this time, please. I promise I won't post them. It really peeves you or new threads would already be provided here on your forums, for compliments & complaints. Your staff's complaints about customers too. If you do, just make sure you post them complete and uncommented, thank you. Steve bashed your customers. You bashed me. I bashed you back. I have the proof. You know & I know how you handled things. Read my first email again & your answer, then defend it. It was unprofessional. We can do this on your forums forever & it doesn't change how poorly you handled my customer service request. You could have given me the information requested in approximately 30 seconds & then expressed your thoughts of me privately to anyone at Battlefront you wanted. You chose your own misguided path to make it personal. For whatever reason, I'll never know.

[Meach]

I tried to read that but the one big paragraph hurt my eyes :S

I gave up.

[Battlefront.com]

So, to be clear JP76er... you want to go with Choice #3, not Choice #1 or #2? Obviously we aren't afraid to post the whole thing because we keep asking you for permission to do so, which is why you've run our patience out.

I'll treat your next post as your final answer as to which Choice you wish to exercise. But understand that if you do not choose #1 it will be pretty obvious that you know you're wrong.

Steve

[JP76er]

JP76er,

No, I didn't post them because it would be a gross violation of customer service policy and "netiquite" to post your private correspondence without your permission. Which is why we've asked you to give us permission to post everything so people can judge for themselves. Therefore, it is obvious that we feel your characterization of the exchange is incorrect. Your lack of permission to post clearly demonstrates that you know, deep down inside, that you are in the wrong here.

Now, besides all that you are in violation of Forum rules. You've made a rather strongly aggressive claim about something which has nothing to do with this thread's topic. This is considered "Troll" behavior. When you first posted your rather obnoxious post I gave you the benefit of the doubt, checked into it, and quite frankly was not surprised to find out that your attitude (as it has been shown here) is extremely unproductive. So I'm going to give you a choice:

1. Give me permission to post the entire series of emails, from the beginning and without edits, to let people judge for themselves how things went.

2. Don't give us permission, stop posting about the exchange. If you ever bring it up again, you'll be banished.

3. Don't give us permission, continue to violate the rules by attacking us without justification, and be banished for it.

If you REALLY feel that you're in the right on this one, then the choice is rather obvious. Opt for Choice #1 and let us shoot ourselves in the foot. Otherwise, the other two Choices are there for you to select from.

We may not be a democracy here, but we do bend over backwards to allow people to have their say in a reasonable way. However, there is a limit to our patience and you've reached it.

BTW, I in no way "bashed" our customers. I simply stated the facts that no matter what we do regarding a release date someone complains about how we go about things. I'm not angry or even annoyed by it, just pointing out that there's definitely no way to do it which will make everybody happy.

Steve

I've been looking at #2 ever since this started. Number 1 doesn't work because of my personal information. I'm not a "Troll". I responded to your post. I simply stated the facts. You answered, Martin answered & I have answered back. I have no problem in never bringing this up again. Read all of my other posts. They have all been about the game. I like the game & I like looking to others on the forum for help & their knowledge. You can ban me for any reason you want. I have lain out truthfully as what transpired & Battlefront knows it. We can agree to disagree or use any other cliché. I'm dropping it. It's up to you now.

[JP76er]

So, to be clear JP76er... you want to go with Choice #3, not Choice #1 or #2? Obviously we aren't afraid to post the whole thing because we keep asking you for permission to do so, which is why you've run our patience out.

I'll treat your next post as your final answer as to which Choice you wish to exercise. But understand that if you do not choose #1 it will be pretty obvious that you know you're wrong.

Steve

You posted while I was answering you back. Number 1 is out because of my personal information & you know that. It's obvious that I'm not wrong, I'm not backing down from that one bit. I just told you that #2 is fine by me. The rest is totally up to you.

[zmoney]

Sure it peeves you. You're hiding behind customer confidentiality & rightfully so. You can't do that without giving away my personal information. Another smoke screen.QUOTE]

Just an outside view of it all, it looks like you are hiding behind the smoke screen. Its very easy to take your personal info out of the text and still be able to release the meat of the email.

It’s really annoying that all this took place in this thread because every time I saw one of the BFC guys respond I thought it was about the Brit module. So don’t air your dirty laundry unless you plan to make it all public and in your own thread.

[Battlefront.com]

I have lain out truthfully as what transpired & Battlefront knows it.

Right... which is why we're so anxious to post the whole transcript? Clearly that can't be the case.

I don't care how many games you've bought from us, I don't care how many on topic posts you've made. You've attacked our credibility out of the blue and you refuse to allow us to prove that you are completely unjustified to do so. Now with the flimsy excuse about your personal information being shown (we could EASILY remove without affecting the content). We will NOT "agree to disagree" here because you're so wrong it pains me to restrain myself from posting the transcript even without your permission.

OK, so the way things stand is this. Give us permission to post the entire exchange with your personal information (name, email address, etc.) removed or never bring this up again. Including not even responding to this post (other than to give us permission, that is). I know I've made myself VERY clear, the rest is up to you.

Steve

[JP76er]

I appreciate your opinion & I apologize that this has derailed the information on the Brit module.

[Battlefront.com]

zmoney,

Just an outside view of it all, it looks like you are hiding behind the smoke screen. Its very easy to take your personal info out of the text and still be able to release the meat of the email.

An interesting perspective

It’s really annoying that all this took place in this thread because every time I saw one of the BFC guys respond I thought it was about the Brit module. So don’t air your dirty laundry unless you plan to make it all public and in your own thread.

Agreed. Now that we're done with this whole unnecessary mess, perhaps we can now get back on topic! Which, unfortunately, is me saying I can't give you guys a better estimate when the Brit Module will be out other than to say "soon". And by "soon" I don't mean months, but I also don't mean days either.

Steve

[JP76er]

zmoney,

An interesting perspective

Agreed. Now that we're done with this whole unnecessary mess, perhaps we can now get back on topic! Which, unfortunately, is me saying I can't give you guys a better estimate when the Brit Module will be out other than to say "soon". And by "soon" I don't mean months, but I also don't mean days either.

Steve

Agreed. Looking forward to the Brit Module. Now, I'm back to my thread on Javelins & on topic.

[Kodiakwdj]

Hopefully you will ban the Troll and thanks for the info on when the Brits module will be out.

Hopefully you will do a Russian Module, a German Module, a French Module and others in years to come.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Russian Module,

Not happening. They're going to make a whole new game to deal with symmetrical modern warfare after the Normandy game comes out.

German Module

Happening, right after the British Module, and will also include some other countries as well (I believe Canadians and Dutch were mentioned).

French Module and others in years to come.

Not happening. I forget why, possibly due to a lack of interest? I'd be interested. But Steve has said that the only forces that will be added to CM:SF are the Germans and the other forces in that module, and then there will be no new major content for CM:SF beyond maybe some little goodies that get sneaked into patches here and there (and that's just a guess on my part).

[Kodiakwdj]

It is too bad they are going to add all that heavy firepower on the NATO side without anyone that can stand up to it on the Syrian side.

You say there will be a CMSF2 with real adversaries for the Blue side. That would be great. Hopefully it will have the ability to do Russia vs China, Russia vs Georgia, Ukraine, etc, as well.

[Battlefront.com]

Kodiakwdj,

You say there will be a CMSF2 with real adversaries for the Blue side.

All depends on what sort of fight you're talking about, because the current Syrians can stand up to Blue quite well relatively speaking. Out in the open with tanks vs. tanks? Yeah, they come up a bit short in that department But to be fair, so does everybody except, perhaps, Russia and China. Perhaps.

Steve

[dan/california]

You need to include a few more scenarios like the battle of Pooh, people who haven't played that don't quite understand what a misery top line Syrian equipment and troops can make life for the Blue side.

[Scipio]

Make scenarios with the Brits or later with the Germans playing on the Syrian side. Unrealistic, maybe... but it's a game, isn't it?

[Kodiakwdj]

How about the new resurgent Russian Empire invades Afghanistan (or Iran), to right an old humiliation, with their friends the French. The Americans desperately hold on until the British and our new friends the Germans come to the rescue.

[Alan8325]

Kodiakwdj,

All depends on what sort of fight you're talking about, because the current Syrians can stand up to Blue quite well relatively speaking. Out in the open with tanks vs. tanks? Yeah, they come up a bit short in that department But to be fair, so does everybody except, perhaps, Russia and China. Perhaps.

Steve

What about air forces? Would a realistic war between the U.S. and Russia or China still reach a point early in the war where the U.S. achieves total air superiority? Somehow I think the U.S. places so incredibly much importance on air superiority that it is willing to spend the entire U.S. GDP to achieve it, if needed. On the other hand, recent shifts in projected military expeditures away from air superiority assets like the F-22 add a little more credibility to symmetrical air forces in a future large-scale conflict. It would be nice to have a CMSF 2 where both sides have air support though, even if the truth is bent just a little.