Time limit

[MikeyD]

Uh... what?

I can't imagine what you're imagining the game's supposed to play like. You seem dead set on disliking it on 'principle' and nothing else.

[InFireBaptize]

i need an option, if i like to play with a time bomb then i check a box and if i don't like to play with a time bomb then i uncheck the box! it's about giving us an option that's all my friend. It's like i give you a car and lock the speed to 40KM/H how do you like that!!

[Gpig]

Uh oh. With talk of lots of "options," AND "cars," you'll soon have Steve in here with a car analogy.

Seriously though, the Simpsons episode where Homer gets to design his perfect car is a pretty good one. The car has everything he'd ever want and lots of options, but it's a disaster.

[InFireBaptize]

really, what games have you been playing!! when was the last time you played a game that doesn't have tons of options? unless you're talking console!!

as for Steve, he wants minimum support headache so i don't think he has a solution for it either.

Go play dragon rising, Might as well put an hourglass on your desk while playing games.

Gotta go and study a bit.

[souldierz]

What I normally do is, go in the editor and load a mission, then increase its time limit to 4hrs +15 min then save it.Now your able to play the mission with more then enough time to do what you wish.I to never liked the time limit either and i understand why its there, but i find 4 hrs to beat a mission is a good compromise and that's plenty of time to use.I have never yet had a mission that lasted for 4 hrs and I was free to take as much time as I saw fit to complete any mission.Increasing it to 4hrs will help you get the full enjoyment of a mission.

[InFireBaptize]

What I normally do is, go in the editor and load a mission, then increase its time limit to 4hrs +15 min then save it.Now your able to play the mission with more then enough time to do what you wish.I to never liked the time limit either and i understand why its there, but i find 4 hrs to beat a mission is a good compromise and that's plenty of time to use.I have never yet had a mission that lasted for 4 hrs and I was free to take as much time as I saw fit to complete any mission.Increasing it to 4hrs will help you get the full enjoyment of a mission.

great, thank you

I want to be able to play without worrying about the hourglass and looking at it every minute.

[theFightingSeabee]

I am one of the guys that wanted what you want... more time. Thankfully, they increased the limit to 4 hours, which really is an eternity. Like souldierz said, just open the scenarios in the editor and edit the time. You may, however, depending on the scenario, be screwing up the intended purpose of the time limit imposed by the scenario designer. I wouldn't recommend it for probably more than half of all the scenarios in existence. Some scenarios/maps scream for more time to be able to complete a methodical, inch-by-f^ing-inch, coordinated assault.

By the way, you can't (I don't think) edit the campaign scenarios. Those you have to live with. But making your way through a campaign with time limits just might make you a better commander.

[Paper Tiger]

The ability to extend missions to 4 hours was introduced back with v1.20. It's simple enough to change this yourself but I can confirm that you can't do this with campaign missions. They cannot be edited or customised by the player. You should be careful doing this though as in most cases, this will break the mission. No more AI plans and the AI side's inability to resupply its units are just two important factors. When you change it, perhaps you should save the amended version of 'missiontitle' as 'missiontitleext' or something so that you don't lose the original.

I don't do many stand-alones myself. I'm a campaign guy. But when I do, I design my missions to be challenging for the Human BLUE player against the RED AI and time plays a large part in that challenge. It's not some arbitrary limit that I set just for kicks. Change the time limit and you're reducing the challenge. But heck... it's your game. Play it the way you want.

[Pvt. Ryan]

Extending the time limit can ruin the challenge of a scenario, but this is a game and sometimes you just want to play.

[Wiggum]

really, what games have you been playing!! when was the last time you played a game that doesn't have tons of options? unless you're talking console!!

as for Steve, he wants minimum support headache so i don't think he has a solution for it either.

Go play dragon rising, Might as well put an hourglass on your desk while playing games.

Gotta go and study a bit.

Maybe you just played too much ArmA2 ?

Look, in this game you have many advantages compared to a "real" commander.

You can pause the game, fly over your soldiers like god ect.

The timelimit will give you some pressure to do something and dont think to much.

You will make mistakes and blame the timelimit for it but just look at it different, blame the pressure for it.

I dont like mission with to low timelimit too but if the scenario is over and you dont have taken all objectives dont be angry, analyze the situation and think "hey, only one enemy platoon left, they would not have a chance...i win".

And please dont make the mistake to compare this game with ArmA2. Its good that you cant mod the whole game or it would possible to destroy the balance.

[InFireBaptize]

I guess I have to plan, equip the squads, split them, designate targets, organize and distribute armor/infantry before I push that red square button, that will hopefully save me about 15minutes or maybe more “since I’m just learning this”.

But then again, would you dismount all your infantry squads before you really know which areas are hot? I think it’s better to leave them in until you approach enemy zone but then you’re risking losing all squad members inside the Stryker if it gets hit!

I just hate that feeling that I have to rush things before the time expires, this could lead to casualties and losing the battle.

I love arma2 but in no were comparing arma2 to this, I said it before completely different games.

Do all missions have this time limit!

[Wiggum]

I guess I have to plan, equip the squads, split them, designate targets, organize and distribute armor/infantry before I push that red square button, that will hopefully save me about 15minutes or maybe more “since I’m just learning this”.

But then again, would you dismount all your infantry squads before you really know which areas are hot? I think it’s better to leave them in until you approach enemy zone but then you’re risking losing all squad members inside the Stryker if it gets hit!

I just hate that feeling that I have to rush things before the time expires, this could lead to casualties and losing the battle.

I love arma2 but in no were comparing arma2 to this, I said it before completely different games.

Do all missions have this time limit!

I play in RT only and always pause the game and give all units some linked orders like you would do in WEGO. Then i look at the action and if something happens in pause again and change the command.

I always look at the time left and all 5 minutes i pause the game to check all orders, target arcs, maybe change TARGET into TARGET LIGHT or something.

Try to place a sniper team, a FO or maybe a FSV (with all those sensors) at a overwatch position. Dont expect them to instantly spot something, wait a few minutes.

Sometimes it will be a good idea to attract the fire with a tank if you feel save enough.

But thats maybe the most difficult part of the game...

[InFireBaptize]

I play in RT only and always pause the game and give all units some linked orders like you would do in WEGO. Then i look at the action and if something happens in pause again and change the command.

I always look at the time left and all 5 minutes i pause the game to check all orders, target arcs, maybe change TARGET into TARGET LIGHT or something.

Try to place a sniper team, a FO or maybe a FSV (with all those sensors) at a overwatch position. Dont expect them to instantly spot something, wait a few minutes.

Sometimes it will be a good idea to attract the fire with a tank if you feel save enough.

But thats maybe the most difficult part of the game...

hmmm, interesting, can you use the red square button on/off while gaming!

[cabal23]

Reason there is a time limit, No water resupply in game, no ammo resupply in game to the vehicles, exhaustion of the pixeltruppen moving in 110 degree heat, scenario design becomes a nightmare, [how much artillery do I give since i expect to take the objective in 2 hours and the player is now at the 8th hour] and that is what is just off the top of my head. An unlimited time mission becomes an operation, and would require many different things.

Rune

I can't accept that because as we all know this is a simulation. Water? Simulated. Heat? Already modeled. Ammo? Last time I checked there is enough ammo in any US vehicles to last quite a long time. Hours if need be. I also disagree that it is an operation if you give someone four hours, instead of two or one. I have read multiple books with battles that raged on for a day or two with no resupply(you might just have to fire light, instead of just opening up all guns blazing full on which would offer another tactical element to overcome). Also it would make sense for the scenario designer to allow reinforcements to arrive at the 2 hour mark to resupply soldier with water, ammo, and extract wounded(also going on while the game is going on, but it being simulated) I think people forget this is a sim, not a RTS. BF has stated many times, many things are simulated to avoid unecessary modeling. I have to say all those points are weak and refutable. I would agree with most people here that is an easy feature to implement and wouldn't detract from the realism of the game at all.

[cabal23]

"Thing is, the player can easily adapt to extended time limits, that I'm sure of, but the AI cannot."

After careful thought I think the problem is with the AI not the time limit so much. As someone already stated the AI is the limitation because once the AI finishes it's designed program. That's it. I think the discussion needs to shift to how can we one day create slightly more advanced AI commands. I have ready read the umpteen posts about how hard that is to increase the functionality of the AI, but a if X happens do Y would also be really helpful and make the AI more robust. I just feel the AI has serious limitations and increasing more time might just make it appear a failure. Because all the troops would do is sit at their final location and shoot at whoever comes into view, or run away due to morale. I think someone stated the AI is pretty much done after 3/4 of a normal game. I beg for a way to keep an AI moving throughout the entire game, but as stated it will never happen because of programming limitations. So I guess the end result is the game is what it is and be happy with what you have. I also agree a play on button would be a nice feature. I often forget I can go in an increase the time to four hours.

[rune]

Cabal23,

First off, that post was from 8 months ago. Second, it was discussed at the time, and if you read Steve's reply after mine, it does all impact the game. the discussion was also about unlimited time, not a set piece of time.

Show me a battle in Iraq that went 2 days with no resupply.

Last, how much have you coded in CM? Don't assume something is easy to implement.. if it was, it would have been done already.

No insult intended, but I rather see more added into CM:N then going back to work on CMSF.

Rune

[souldierz]

The one thing that I have to admit that I come to like about the time limit at certain times(not all), is the pressure it creates to keep moving, it's war not a vacation.It reminds me of a situation where you'd have the top General constantly ordering the Commander to keep moving and pushing forward,slug it out if you have to.You can practically hear the words ring out in your head.

I usually try to get in one battle every day or other day or whenever possible afterwards,so when I play I want to try and study and then put down the perfect strategy to accomplish the mission in it's given perimeters, also I don't like to fight the same battle twice unless there's different AI plans,so I want to get it right the first time.I get more enjoyment out of not knowing how the battle will play out.

Before starting a mission I take time to read the briefing to fully understand the conditions, objectives and 2 main things.1 being what my forces are and when they arrive,2 being what the enemy forces are.After(or in some cases trying to) understanding what my forces are,I then take time to study the map for a while looking at all its terrain from all angles and where my forces would move to.From there I try to visualize a plan of execution for platoon movements and also visualize where to place vehicles.I play this out in my head a couple times over as a rough draft for the overall strategy.I learned that even though this is a computer game, I find it so well done that it makes me have to approach this professionally if I want good results and I like that fact.

Even take time to plot and plan a rough draft strategy for the first half of the map and then maybe improvise for the second half.I learned that in order to avoid the pressure of time by constantly wondering what the battles going to be like 10 minutes from now and will I have enough time to make it to the line at the end, just proceed with the plan regardless of the time.If you make it you make it, if you don't you don't,but try to make sure you got enough objectives to secure a win.Avoid at all cost's rushing the men around at the last seconds.I think anyone who plays this game will learn that lesson fairly quickly when they realize that's where the most casualties go down.Most of the time by doing this, I finish most mission's with 5 or so minutes left.The mission designer's are usually fairly accurate and some times all that would have been needed was an extra 5-10 minutes.Some things manage to slow you down and making up for lost time can be tough.If you cannot make all objectives then your plan was not well formed and a better one can be created,so get back to the drawing board and rethink the approach.

I put most missions to 4hrs(except for the the ones posted on forum and would like feedback)as a guarantee that the game won't stop when I got a compound or neighborhood surrounded, or the enemy has got a small pocket of resistance left that I would like to resolve, but most of the time a surrender comes before you get every enemy.I still try to keep a good pace and not doodle around because I have 4hrs to do what like, but having that option made me enjoy playing and completing some very good missions.

[cabal23]

"First off, that post was from 8 months ago."

And what is your point? Has something drastically changed from 8 months ago from where the game stands now? I was addressing your first sentence of your post mostly because those points didn't make sense.

"Show me a battle in Iraq that went 2 days with no resupply. "

I never said anything about Iraq. But since you brought it up, how would you know they didn't? Your telling me not a single battle or string of battles ever took place for more than two days with nothing but the supplies a company brought with them(that is still a lot of supplies in all those AAV's)?

"Last, how much have you coded in CM? Don't assume something is easy to implement.. if it was, it would have been done already."

Sounds to me like Steve said there would be some sort of compromise with a continue on button. Don't start with the coding issues. We all know the one man coding problem with BF games. It isn't always a case of coding as it is the manpower. But I was never arguing that point. I respect Charles for the amazing one man show he is. I take back saying that it is easy to implement. But once again BF didn't really make it sound like it is that tough to do, quite the contrary.

"No insult intended, but I rather see more added into CM:N then going back to work on CMSF."

I think you let your sig at the bottom of the page got to your head. That is your opinion about Normandy. Because anything they fix in CMSF now will be implemented in CMSF 2. I think Normandy will be awesome (not really my thing though), but I want see the effort added into the next version of CMSF and that starts with this version. I am not insulted at all. Just that your argument was weak and I was debating as many time people do here. Don't get your britches all in a bundle. I even added a remark afterwords when I thought it out some more because I think the problem goes beyond the discussion we were having and more into AI.

It's all good though. I will still keep buying the amazing products BF makes despite it may not include every feature I want. I love these forums because we can have these discussions and every now and then Steve pops up and says that it might be a possibility. That's all we are doing here. Talking possibilities, nothing more.

[InFireBaptize]

Rune,

No one is asking for a 2 day battle here “at least me”, having said that, there must be missions out there that lasted few minutes to hours to days, who knows!!

If you run out of supply or your supply got cut off then you have to deal with what you have and be more careful not to waste anymore ammo! Or like for instance, in the beginning of the mission, a message informs you that no supply will be provided just like in real life, or provide supply if you can! Extra truck fully loaded with ammo maybe!

CMSF is a great game, never played something like it before but it’s kinda a letdown when you encounter a limitation in such a great game!

I’m hoping like the last poster this will be removed in CM:N and future CM.

[flamingknives]

I must admit to being a bit bemused by all this. The time limit is four (4) hours.

How is this not long enough?

Perhaps what is needed is a campaign like the old operations. Multiple missions on the same map. I'd do it, but I'm far too apathetic.

[MikeyD]

This is starting to sound like a "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" debate. So much theory! Yes, I suppose the ideal game would have an unlimited play time with the AI magically able to handle all contingencies no matter how absurd. Ideally it would also be best if you could plug the game directly into your brainstem to play Matrix-style. But neither of these 'ideals' take into account the current state of technology. Sure, you probably could find a way plug the game into your brainstem using current technology, but it would probably kill you.

[Lanzfeld]

4 Hours is plenty of time.

I just really dislike the 14 minute scenarios. It is not realistic to have 14 minutes to attack something.

Min length for any scenario should be 45 minutes.

Just my thoughts.

[Sgt Joch]

Sure, you probably could find a way plug the game into your brainstem using current technology, but it would probably kill you.

I'm sure there is still a market niche for that....

[Paper Tiger]

It's already been established that anyone can change the time limit from 40 minutes or whatever to 4 hours and take his own sweet time slaughtering the AI player while learning the nuances of the game. It's in the game and it's yours to play the way you will but don't complain that scenario designers set the limit at something less than you'd like. CHANGE IT and be happy. It's not an issue.

As for 15 minute scenarios. I haven't seen any but please direct me to one or two of them as I enjoy playing smaller battles that are simply focussed on a single firefight. I will admit that I've created a couple of monsters in my time but the missions I've had the most fun playtesting have been the shorter ones, less than a hour. Some folks like to recon the enemy positions thoroughly and manoeuvre their forces into positions from which to make their assault, a phase that might last up to an hour, while others just want to cut to the chase and go right to the real meat of the situation, the firefight for the objective. I am more the first type. I am searching for that ideal firefight and I like to set it up for myself.

[Wiggum]

I think flamingknives is right, its 4 hours !

Even in a 2 hour battle you can run out of ammo if you dont be carefull enough.

Many times i had no more Javelins to deal with a enemy tank, sometimes my infantry was cut off and out of ammo so i had to drive a vehicle to them to resupply...

The maps arent that huge so i think 4 hours is good, maybe 5 hours will be perfect but i thin i never played a scenario that needs so much time.