iconbob Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Hello all! For the history leading to this post, please refer to my original post (Help with CMBO and Win XP). Anyway, please indulge me a summary of how to get CMBO and CMBB to work with Win XP and an NVIDIA-based graphics card: Note: I have pieced much of this information together from other snippets located throughout this forum. I thought a summary post might be helpful! So here goes: 1). Only the 30.82 version of the NVIDIA drivers will work. Anything in the 40-series, including the most recent beta 43.30 version, WILL NOT WORK without using compatibilty mode AND a CD Crack (not recommended). 2). For the drivers to work successfully, all previous and past versions MUST be removed. The best way to do this is to download a free program called "NVIDIA File Remover v0.5." This program is available on the following website: www.guru3d.com. Just follow the link to the Detonator driver section. Download and install this program on your system. 3) Use Control Panel ---> Add/Remove Programs to remove any installed NVIDIA driver files. After the reboot, run the NFR program and delete any remaining NVIDIA driver files. I was amazed that I still had 29-series drivers on my PC!!! Note: there is one file that will remain...I believe it is the 'generic' WIN XP file for the NVIDIA graphics chipset. Just remove any of the remaining driver files that you can. 4) Now reboot again and install the 30.82 drivers. Delete the "CBxx_Prefs" file (located in Program Files -->CMxx folder. Reboot again. 5) Start CMxx. You may get the blank screen initially (I did), but simply ALT-Tab back to the desktop and then back to the program. The program should then ask for Direct3D confirmation, and VOILA, you're in!!! :cool: OK, well, this is what worked for me! My only comment is that I think this problem is really an issue for the BattleFront guys. Sooner or later, we are going to have to update our video drivers, especially with the GeForceFX on the way. Every other (and I mean EVERY other) game manufacturer recommends driver UPDATES as a solution to program trouble. This is the first time I've ever had to downgrade, so to speak. I'm just hoping it doesn't cause me any other problems with something else. OK, I'm off my soapbox now! Seriously, though, if anyone else needs additional help, feel free to email me directly! I'd be happy to return the favor since so many of you took the time to help me! Just reference CMxx in the email title, please. Thanks again to all those who helped me, and I hope this post is helpful to someone else! Well, I'm off to battle now.... Regards, "Captain" Bob Osika :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggallagher Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Bob: Good summary......and it reflects my own erxperience, down to your soapbox-top observation as to the need for BFC to address the issue. (Surgeon General's Warning: This is a politically incorrect position, for which one is subject to being deridden for not calling for nVidia to fix it's drivers and for Microsoft to tighten up it's certification procedures....) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 This situation certainly is a bummer. I have been unable to stand playing CMBB because of the choppiness. Unfortunately, I can't downgrade back to the old drivers ("work" related), so I am hoping a fix comes in soon for these crappy drivers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Actually BFC/BTS have contacted NVidia several times. NVidia admits that the problem is due to a bug in their drivers. Other games just aren't using CM's DirectX calls in the manner that CM is. They rarely need to display the amount of info that CM does and they usually don't have a 2D bitmap control section on their screen (it's often an overlay of some sort). The only way for BTS/BFC to 'fix' this is to totally revamp all 2D screens (info boxes, scenario selection screens, 2D controls, etc.), by possibly getting rid of them entirely (not a good or even reasonable option at this point). It's not just a 'bug' that can be 'found' and then fixed soley for the NVidia drivers. The bug in the NVidia drivers basically limits you to not using certain sequences of valid DirectX calls/functions, etc. A call for BTS/BFC to fix it boils down to BTS totally revamping the appearance and functionality of the interface of CM - all for the sake of one family of drivers (albeit a popular family). The driver bug is generally minor in the overall scheme of things, witness the claim that no other programs have problems with the NVidia drivers. It just takes a small bug (which unfortunately for CM crops up repeatedly in the NVidia drivers) to cause some very annoying problems for CM. The 'common suggestion' of upgrading your drivers to fix issues for games is usually reasonable, since most driver upgrades are bug fixes. However in the case of NVidia and ATI a large chunk of work is also dedicated to improving the performance of the drivers - a goal that often contradicts bug fixing because it invariably leads to the introduction of more bugs. Just read through the comments on Guru3D downloads regarding the beta (and even WHQL) drivers. So many people have different experiences with the same drivers and not all experiences are positive. Unfortunately most people here just won't understand. This subject will continue to crop up until a new release of the NVidia Detonators work and then the very next set that has problems people will blame BTS/BFC and suggest that they need to 'fix CM'. All based on the logic that if the drivers work for another game and they don't for CM, then the bug must be with CM. As comfortable as that logic may seem, it is not correct. [ March 14, 2003, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggallagher Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 Am not going to get dragged down into the mire again, and will leave you with just one thought.... Often times, there is a difference between being "right" and being "effective"...there is no doubt in my mind that BFC's approach - and your defense of that approach is that "right" way. But empirically, it is also clear that the approach is not proving to be a totally effective one, based on the now increasing number of customers who are complaining that the drivers shipping with their new systems are proving incompatible with CMBB. Thats it...I surrender...YOU ARE RIGHT...now I suggest you concern yourself with improving your effectiveness.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benpark Posted March 14, 2003 Share Posted March 14, 2003 I understand, Schrullenhaft. Thanks for keeping on those Nvidia buggers. If I didn't have to use these drivers, I wouldn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misery Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 Originally posted by ggallagher: ... But empirically, it is also clear that the approach is not proving to be a totally effective one, based on the now increasing number of customers who are complaining that the drivers shipping with their new systems are proving incompatible with CMBB. Thats it...I surrender...YOU ARE RIGHT...now I suggest you concern yourself with improving your effectiveness.... Well said ggallagher! You hit the nail on the head. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easytarget Posted March 20, 2003 Share Posted March 20, 2003 the soln is a re-write of the engine, something battlefront is working on for the next release 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhuen Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Bob, Well, I went through your process as outlined above, and now the Nvidia/XP issues I was having (game stuttering/locking up every 3-4 minutes) has gotten worse. Deleting the pref file only ensures that CMBB will not launch period. Rolling back the driver to 3.0.8.2. is giving me more problems than I had with 4.1.*.* in regards to the game stuttering and locking up. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up that this is not a fix that will work for everyone, and may, as in my case, make the problem worse. Val. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 How closely did you follow the above instructions ? Did you uninstall the previous sets of drivers properly ? Did you reboot afterwards or just install the next set of drivers before rebooting ? Do you have any USB devices attached to your computer (other than a mouse) ? If you do have you unplugged them to see if it will make any difference ? What sound card do you have ? Does the stuttering appear only as a video abberration or as an audio problem too ? Have you turned off 'ambient' sound to see if this changes anything (there's quite a bit of audio data involved with playing ambient sound) ? Does this happen regardless of the size of the scenario/op (size of the map or the number of units) ? Is there any 'drive activity' during these stuttering episodes (CD/DVD or hard drive) ? Look for the drive activity light on the case or drive. Deleting the Prefs file isn't always necessary. If you don't, you'll just run at the previous resolution and refresh rate you were before. If you have problems starting up CM again after deleting the Prefs file, then you may have more problems, such as the WM_TIMER security patch bug that causes 'black screens' for some users. How is your monitor defined in Windows ? Usually 'Plug and Play' should be sufficient, but I've seen times when 'Default Monitor' causes problems. If you can find the exact monitor definition I'd suggest using it, otherwise Plug and Play Monitor should work (most monitors fit this definition nowadays). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhuen Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Schrul, On one hand I know you are the class "guru" around here, however I still can't help but feel that tinge of "Viva Grandoise"..... All instructions were followed to the letter, as Bob saw fit to list them. The issue I am having is an issue that has been brought up on these boards before, and quite recently. Doing a forum search under "stuttering" will net results on similar issues. Your prose, and playing 1000 questions does more hindering than help, as it insuniates that anyone who asks a question on these boards, must either: a) Be a complete computer illiterate moron Not as smart as you or c) Any combination of the above Absurd notions of what USB devices I have plugged in, or if my monitor is "Plug and Play" have NOTHING to do with the issues I am having at hand. I play a LARGE spectrum of games on a regular basis, from Ghost Recon, IL-2 FB and NHL 2003 on the 3d intensive side, to Cossacks and a wide assortment of strategy games on the other. NOT ONE of those games "stutters" like CMBB and the CMBO demo do. Not on one of those innumerable other games have I had any issues even closely related to the one I am having with the CM** games. This issue is with CM**, not my hardware or settings. If it is a conflict with CM** and my settings, it is still an issue with CM**, as again, there have been no other problems that would lead me to believe in anyway that this is widespread. According to research from similar problems reported on these boards, this is plainly an issue where CM** does not like Nvidia drivers. For whatever reason, the game feels the need to "hiccup" every few minutes. Please, I implore you, if there is to be any follow up, let it be from someone who has either: a) Experienced the same problem to no avail or Experienced the same problem and has come up with a fix The last thing I want, or have time for, is someone asking me "What is the manufacturer of your RAM", "What is your PC's temp", yadda yadda yadda.... If I cannot find a fix, well I will just have to stay clear of picking up CMBO, and any follow up games until this WELL KNOWN Nvidia/CM** issue is fixed. Having a bad day, Val. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Val, the attempt here is to help you, not make you or anyone else feel inferior. I can't claim to know everything about computers or CM for that matter. Many people here make suggestions or troubleshoot from perspectives I haven't considered or casually forget. Troubleshooting requires looking at a lot of variables. Often these variables may not seem directly related to the problem at hand. People have reported strange solutions to some problems on this forum and therefore I make an attempt to suggest as many courses of action as possible. Another complication of dealing with problems over the 'net is that you can't confirm what a person has done or examined without asking. If you don't ask, then an important point can be skipped or forgotten. Therefore what sounds like condescending questioning is only an habitual attempt to get information and make sure that points have been covered. At least that's my explanation for my behavior... I've run CMBB on one platform that has a GeForce 3 on a Pentium 1.8GHz machine that is a MSI motherboard based on the Intel 850 chipset. The 30.87 drivers have not produced 'stuttering' effects for me. Perhaps GeForce 4 series cards will have a problem with this configuration whereas GeForce 2 and 3 series cards won't. I honestly don't have that in-depth of a knowledge of the drivers. If you feel that I've 'talked down to you', then I apologize. I will make an attempt not to reply to threads to which you post to in the future in order to avoid this misunderstanding. [ April 03, 2003, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhuen Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Schrul, You have to accept my apologies, my day went from bad to worse just before I sent the reply, and it was one of those moments I should not have been online, hence the lashing out. Val. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 There ARE other games having slow down problems. A couple of Naval games I play also suffer from the new drivers. Hence, I play with the 41.09s without the fsaa. SimHQ has listed one of the games having problems with the newest nvidia drivers. This alone proves it is NOT CMXX but the drivers, which NVIDIA already admitted they have a problem with. That being said, I will continue to test the newest nvidia drivers letting ya know when the drivers are fixed. Rune PS I am now running an GeForce 4 4600 with 128meg of memory for my testing, so it won't reflect on the newer FX cards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggallagher Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Rune, et al.: I think it has been quite clearly established that the technical problem is clearly with nVidia...hoiwever, the business problem is BFC's and thus it may be incumbent on BFC to "fix" the issue. Clearly, nVidia has shown no inclination to address the issue across alkl the multiple official and beta releases of new drivers. If BFC were to sit back and maintain the "high ground" of not addressing the issue within their own code, then it is they alone who will suffer. This may be unfortunate, unfair to BFC, etc., but unfortunately it is the reality of the situation. A common response is "Why don't you just shutup, run the 3X.XX version of the drivers and be content with the privelege of being allowed to run CMBB at all?" Unfortuantely, for many of us, we have gaming and other needs that go beyond CMBB and will eventually need to move on to newer versions of the drivers.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 The why is easy....say they find a work around to the nvidia drivers, and this is a big assumption it can be done without spending countless hours trying to work around a call that nvidia broke WITHOUT having to remove all the 2d screens. Once done it is released....then Nvidia fixes the problem....guess what, you game is now broke again requiring ANOTHER fix. It was broken before and fixed by NVidia then broke again. Also remember there is ONE coder for CM, and he is working on the patch to the game for game play issues. Now, as much as they have tried to clone the head in a jar, they have not succeeded yet, and Charles remains the only coder. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggallagher Posted April 3, 2003 Share Posted April 3, 2003 Yep...really a tough spot for BFC to be in....the proverbial "damned if you do, damned if you don't"...ultimately, the question to be weighed is what are the relatively probabilities of nVida eventually fixing the call in their drivers versus their never addressing the issue. My own money would clearly be on the latter scenario, based on experience to date..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevsharr Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 I have a solution to the problem[one I did'nt know existed],rollback to a TnT2 graphic's card.I have not experienced ANY of the problem's described in any of the post's I've read.I get transparency,fog.On a really massive map with lot's of burning building's I get some slowdown but minimizing or eliminating the smoke help's alot.On smaller map's I use full tree and terrain setting's with no problem's.As for long loading times I have'nt noticed any exceptional delay's.I recently upgraded to the 4.0.82 driver's merely because it was availiable from the microsoft update center,I was running the 2.8 driver.Of course I can't play IL=2 but steel beast's and panzer elite run fine.I mostly play cmbb and sp-waw,rising sun.My system also includes a 1.5 gig p-4 with 256 meg's of ram,maybe this help's but without these post's I would not have realised there was a problem,just think I was considering upgrading[i guess now you could call it downgrading as far as my need's are concerned]to a higher end card but the problem's everyone else seem's to be having has changed all that,like someone once said"if it work's don't fix it" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcelt Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 The 41.09 drivers are perfectly usable with FSAA. All you need do is to exit with ALT TAB and then return to the game-- and all the 2D screens remain fine for the rest of the playing session. I do not know whether this ploy will work with later N'vidia drivers. Id like to know if it does. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted April 6, 2003 Share Posted April 6, 2003 Originally posted by pcelt: The 41.09 drivers are perfectly usable with FSAA. All you need do is to exit with ALT TAB and then return to the game-- and all the 2D screens remain fine for the rest of the playing session. Have you played PBEM with this setup? THe only problem that I have with my 4800SE (glorified 4400 with 8X agp support) and ANY driver so far is with the black text on the save game dialog. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabpub Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 I presume that the driver # is the last 4 digits. I am running the 4072 from Nvidia and have no problems that are apparent. The blackout problem is all gone. XP prompted me to download these drivers after I had tried to change drivers myself and caused the vid to crash. After the system restore, it directed me to these and there I am. Yet, I have never heard anyone make mention of these drivers. Are the proprietary to my card? It is a 64MB Geforce 3 ti200 used in a Medion box. Maybe someone else could try them out? Remember, to a computer, I am Oddball. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisu Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 Indeed. I have Detonator 40.72 drivers as well, with Win XP and Leadtek Winfast GeForce 3. No stuttering and very good performance indeed. I have Asus A7V333 motherboard with Via Hyperion 4.46 drivers installed, with AMD Athlon 2100+. If I try to upgrade to any other Detonator drivers, CMBB stalls. I have noticed that the driver upgrade also degrades the performance with Operation Flashpoint - Game of the Year edition. It suffers from same kind of stuttering. Detonator 40.72 seems to be the only good driver version I can use. OFP tech support suggested that it might be due AGP settings with certain Via chipsets (KT333), but this does not seem to be the case. Only thing that affects the performance clearly, are the Detonator drivers. Direct3D version does not seem to have any effect, I had the same problems with 8.1 and 9.0 and 9.0a. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted April 7, 2003 Share Posted April 7, 2003 The thing is - you are using those drivers with a GF3. The problem is with the later cards (especially AGP 8x). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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