ggallagher

Am having a problem with my 9800XT under both the 4.3 and 4.4 drivers: Some trees are not rendering properly, and have a white outline that shimmers. Have turned off FSAA and everyhting else (letting the app control such things)...any ideas?

Ya.....Britain has been known to give the Irish a bad case of Ulsters.....

Aha!...I knew it was redone!...here's the link http://www.criticalhit.com/Tobruk2.html [ October 22, 2003, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: ggallagher ]

Sorry...meant to reply to the previous thread on the Tobruk boardgame. Reference my post there [ October 22, 2003, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: ggallagher ]

1> Select PzKw VI unit 2> Hit TAB key 3> Hit 1 key Somewhat reminiscent of J'Lo's not-so-best side

Would be interested in seeing the preview....located in Anaheim Hills, just a short(?) run down the 91

I'm baaaaccckkkkk....... The 44.03's work like a charm (save for the FSAA / Alt-Tab workaround)....wonderful news, at least until nVidia breaks the drivers again.

For those who may have read my previous postings, I finally came to the "tipping point" where I had to make the switch over to newer drivers, thus bidding farewell to CMBB. This was a hard choice, but I was having CTD problems with Raven Shield under the old drivers and had to upgrade to newer ones (43.51 in this case). Before you write me off as a "poser" or twitch gamer, please understand that I have been an avid board wargamer for 35 years, and 80% of my current gaming time is devoted to playing Panzer Campaigns PBEM or solo, the remainder taken up by Raven Shield, and some MMORPGs. Furthermore, it looks like I may have to hold off buying the forthcoming CMAK title, as it won't have the engine rewrite we've been advised MIGHT address this issue. Adios guys (BFC included)...it was a mighty fun ride while it lasted....good luck - and hope I can come back into the CMxx fold sometime down the road! [ May 04, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: ggallagher ]

Rune: Suggest you add the modifier "IMHO", because, IMHO, there is an equally defensible postion that BFC should take some action, and adding a caveat to NEW purchasers would be a nice touch. I wouldn't go so far as calling them unethical for not doing so, however.

Yep...really a tough spot for BFC to be in....the proverbial "damned if you do, damned if you don't"...ultimately, the question to be weighed is what are the relatively probabilities of nVida eventually fixing the call in their drivers versus their never addressing the issue. My own money would clearly be on the latter scenario, based on experience to date.....

Rune, et al.: I think it has been quite clearly established that the technical problem is clearly with nVidia...hoiwever, the business problem is BFC's and thus it may be incumbent on BFC to "fix" the issue. Clearly, nVidia has shown no inclination to address the issue across alkl the multiple official and beta releases of new drivers. If BFC were to sit back and maintain the "high ground" of not addressing the issue within their own code, then it is they alone who will suffer. This may be unfortunate, unfair to BFC, etc., but unfortunately it is the reality of the situation. A common response is "Why don't you just shutup, run the 3X.XX version of the drivers and be content with the privelege of being allowed to run CMBB at all?" Unfortuantely, for many of us, we have gaming and other needs that go beyond CMBB and will eventually need to move on to newer versions of the drivers....

Jack: Not so much a question of games not running as it is getting better performance (both in FPS as well as graphics quality) that newer versions of the nVidia drivers provide. For example, reference Sitz's posting in this thread re better graphics for CMBB under newer drivers, albeit under Win ME. Other poor souls cannot run their newer vid cards at all under older drivers and are more SOL than those of us who are just looking to improve their performance. Right now I am still willing to make the trade off and stick to the older drivers so as to run CMBB (am committed to a couple of PBEMs). After those games are finished I may need to revisit that trade-off. Just as there are no easy answers for some of users, there are no easy answers for BFC either. They want to do the right thing, but unfortuantely there's no easy short term solution for them, other than to hope that sooner or later nVidia changes their approach to fix the flaws in their drivers....but all empirical evidence is that they won't.

Jack: If all one ever wants to di on their PC is run CMBB....AND....one's PC / Vid Card combo can run CMBB-optimal drivers....THEN life is good.....but if one has need to run newer drivers for performance (with other software) and/or system compatability reasons, then life is not so simple......

Astro: I echo your sentiments. To be fair, Matt (and BFC as a whole) have been beaten up on this issue a fair amount....and I've been one of the bashers. They've attempted to persuade nVidia to fix the issue within their drivers, but those requests have gone unheeded. Unfortunately, the "fix" in BFC's code (Matt would be loathe to call this a fix....grin) will have to wait until the new CM engine is developed. Unfortuantely, it means that many of us (as Phil eloquently put it) will be weighing the decision to abandon playing CMBB in order to run the latest drivers. When I do decide to make that leap, it will sadden me, as I truly relish the CMBx games....

Agreed....am getting close to the point where my overall gaming needs may be better served by going to newer nVidia drivers, thus precluding further CM play. My loss, not BFC's in this case....but as to future CM engine sales,.....we shall see.....

Astro: Check out the previous threads on this issue....without starting another flame war, suffice to say that the official line is that the problem resides with nVidia's drivers, not BF's code, and the issue won't be addressed by BF - if at all - until the new CM2 engine.

Am not going to get dragged down into the mire again, and will leave you with just one thought.... Often times, there is a difference between being "right" and being "effective"...there is no doubt in my mind that BFC's approach - and your defense of that approach is that "right" way. But empirically, it is also clear that the approach is not proving to be a totally effective one, based on the now increasing number of customers who are complaining that the drivers shipping with their new systems are proving incompatible with CMBB. Thats it...I surrender...YOU ARE RIGHT...now I suggest you concern yourself with improving your effectiveness....

Bob: Good summary......and it reflects my own erxperience, down to your soapbox-top observation as to the need for BFC to address the issue. (Surgeon General's Warning: This is a politically incorrect position, for which one is subject to being deridden for not calling for nVidia to fix it's drivers and for Microsoft to tighten up it's certification procedures....)

Phil: I tried the 43.00 drivers and experienced the severe slowdown issues, so had to de-install tehm and revert to earlier ones....

a) I am running 30.82 at the moment, as I've had to deinstall virtually every new (beta & WHQL) version of nVidia drivers that have been released I have been running CMBO and CMBB on various nvidia cards since they were first released. I am NOT a newcomer to CMBx or these issues c) I have owned and run upwards of a hundred or more gaming titles on my various machines over the years since CMBx was first released. While many have had problems or glitches to various degrees, no one game or 3d gaming engine has had the consistent - and consistently non-addressed - issues with nvidia drivers as has CMBx. And, as I should have expected, the tenor here is that the problem is not with BFC's coding approach and business philosophy, but rather: a) nVidia geeks who have the temerity to want to run beta releases of drivers (which seem to have about the same level of quality control as the v1.0 release of most games) c) me - and people like me - who should just shutup, grin and bear it, and run whatever driver version happens to run CMBx I'm even going to go out on a limb here - this is not based upon specific knowledge, but just a gut feel based on about 25 years experience in the technology industry and as a computer gamer.... the requiste fix by BFC for the CMBx engine to address this is likely a relatively small tweak of some specific & relatively limited modules of code. My guess is that this is fact a "religious" issue, rather than a "degree of difficulty" issue. However, I could be wrong - an admission I am willing to make, but perceive that it is politically incorrect to point out that our wonderful hosts may not be infallible. So what is one to do when the first games are released that support - no, require - DX9 calls and the only drivers available will not run CMBB? Harangue nvidia for releasing drivers that work with about 99.9% of extant software, save for the "pure as the driven snow" CMBB? Nevermind answering, am obviouslly baying at the moon here.....am just glad to see that BFC didn't declare Windows as being a sacrilege and coded their wonderful game in MS-DOS in order to reach the LCD of all potential users... [ March 06, 2003, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: ggallagher ]

OK....on to the game itself...it is obviously not acceptable (nor politically correct) to point out a slightly leaky ceiling in an otherwise beautiful cathedral. However, the definition of "the right drivers" should not be SOLELY based on whether they allow CMBB to run....I would suggest that CMBB should at least run fully successfully with any & all WHQL certified versions of the driver, which includes 40.72 But nevermind....it appears that the heathens (such as myself) who dare to point out that at least in one context, BFC may be taking an approach that while "technically pure" is empirically and pragmatically out of the mainstream, are "not being realistic" Matt, please understand that I never had the intent of being severely critical of your tremendous product - am only trying to point out a small flaw in your technical/business thinking. A side, but related note: - I am currently running a small ($22M) printer and consumer elecrtonics business with a team of 3 software developers on staff, whom I just got finished coaching on the difference between the technically "best" approach to writing printer drivers versus what was required to meet the needs of the business (i.e., writing a native driver for our printers which would require the customer in a non-PC literate environment to install our drivers into a mission critical system, versus emulating the market leader such that we could simply drop in our printers as a turnkey replacement.) The latter approach, albeit "less technically elegant", is more optimal from a pragmatic business standpoint. My only futher - and parting advice - is to be wary of letting yourself go down a path of thinking/rationalization about how your customers should behave and/or conform to your requirements in order for them to realize the "privilege" of running your software. Too much of such pride can sometime goeth before the fall....

With all due respect....bull feathers.... I could possibly buy into the approach that all the other game developers & nVidia driver developers are wrong, and BFC is the only party that is right, if BFC could point out specifically where the drivers are going wrong and what is causing this marked slowdown (not to mention the vanishing text issue under anti-aliasing). Unless and until BFC can establish precisely what is going wrong and how their approach is the correct one (versus that of the nVidia driver develoipers themselves}, I will have to continue to maintain that from both a pragmatic AND an empirical standpoint, they would be better served by bending their approach a bit. Mind you, I really don't want to be perceived as a malcontent here - BFC produces by far THE best computer wargames....but having said that - they, like all other humans are not infallible, and I would go so far as to suggest (point out?) that their core competencies are in the design of the wargames themselves, not necessarily with the ins and outs of DirectX and Direct3d programming.

Matt: I appreciate the technically "pure" approach that you are taking with the drivers issue, but ask that you reflect a bit on the dissonance between the implied strategy behind a technically pure approach (e.g., "ensure the highest degree of compatability between our software and the population of users and their systems"...and the reality of what it has incurred - CMBB/CMBO users have to make a choice between running (and ultimately buying future versions) of your software and running the most up to date drivers for their machine. Sooner or later, your approach MAY force customers to make a choice, and as wonderful as your products are (and they truly are!), making a choice between running CMBB and having all the rest of my games run with better performance, becomes a scenario that BFC may not win all or most times..... Perhaps a little less technical purity and a little more pragmatism is in order..... Respectfully, Gregg

Same issue here with v43.00 of drivers just released. However, question I have to ask is why does EVERY other game I have (and I have ALOT) work just fine under these drivers, but CMBB does not?

True Story: Wife and I met at work.....during one of our first meetings I asked her if she wanted to see my website...she repled "Is that anything like etchings?"......