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I posted this is in the main forum, but I reckon this is the better place for a response.

No river tiles. Syria is not all desert and scrub - even the fountains and pools don't have a 'water' option. I would gladly sacrifice a gravel road tile if someone with more expertise than me could make a river/stream out of it. Marshy gullies only go so far ....

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Not looking for oceans or lakes or amphibious landings, or cool reflections or sunlight glittering on waves.

Just a bit of blue and the fords from CMAK. Or even without the fords from CMAK and make the bit of blue impassable - I will find a way to run a dirt road or something else to make a ford.

You can actually simulate bridges without them actually being bridges (see the Brandenburg scenario - full marks for ingenuity.

I am not obsessed by realism - but no water, in pools or fountains or to make an oasis, sucks worse than a broken Dyson.

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I wasn't really surprised there was no water or bridges etc etc etc. It's just a very basic editor and very basic map objects, does the job but that's about it. The objects and maps really don't give you the immersion or feeling like the battles are taking place in Syria, the environment reminds me more of a tweaked second combat mission game but with some newer tanks. It actually sort of alienates the player I find but that's my view on it. If it survives another 2 months on my hard drive I will be surprised lol.

Compared to a real map editor like coh's...there is no real comparison...and water in a map makes quite a impact all on it's own.

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[ August 13, 2007, 08:38 AM: Message edited by: KiloAlpha4 ]

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  • 1 year later...

The Euphrates splits the country.

Lake Buhayrat al Asad is pretty geographically significant.

There are many rivers and watersheds all over the western part of the country.

I can certainly empathize with the fact that the vast geographic majority of that country is desert it still stands to reason water and, at a minimum, bridges would be a part of the man-made infrastructure elsewhere.

I certainly hope this addition is in the Brit expansion.

I don't think anyone is looking for the simulation of creekbeds, quicksand that might surround it, and the gallons per second that the current can pull. I think bridges, crossings, and some simple blue water with maybe some ambient noise attached to it. After all the manual's introduction does remind players that there will be graphical glitches since the focus is on simulation rather than creating eye candy.

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KiloApha4

VERY nice pictures there but of course, it's WW2 Europe. Your disparaging remarks about CMx2's scenario editor are a bit unfair. It IS already capable of producing very nice and highly detailed maps at the moment. No doubt when the game system moves to Europe, we'll get whole new building sets, terrain tiles, flavour objects, etc and I feel very confident that when Charles and Co put water into the new game engine, it will be amazing.

For the time being, we already have an impassable marsh tile. While it doesn't look that good and it craters, it otherwise does the job. Mod them and you might get a better looking water tile until later.

blow56

sucks worse than a broken Dyson.

A broken Dyson still sucks? :D

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I posted this is in the main forum, but I reckon this is the better place for a response.

No river tiles. Syria is not all desert and scrub - even the fountains and pools don't have a 'water' option. I would gladly sacrifice a gravel road tile if someone with more expertise than me could make a river/stream out of it. Marshy gullies only go so far ....

There is a water tile mod somewhere probably at cmmods.com I believe it changes the marsh tile to look like water.

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The reason why there is no water in CM:SF is because we realized early on during the development that to properly simulate this type of terrain would require way more time and effort than we had the time for. At the same time we wanted to avoid having a static water "tile". While modder have done some REMARKABLE work in this area, it's our design philosophy that it's often better to cut a feature out entirely than to simulate it poorly.

During one of the next "steps" in the CM series, "proper" water will be introduced. This means, dynamic flowing visually appealing water, and not just a static tile. Until then - there are some really GREAT inofficial mods out there.

Martin

PS. Looking at the screens above... wow, for a comparison with an FPS I must say CMSF is coming pretty close :)

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Those are FPS game shots? That was really dishonest posting them then. And I'll bet they had a whole team of programmers working to create that editor. Given some fences and building types like those in the pictures, I'm pretty certain that I could outdo two of those with the CMSF scenario editor. The second one in particular is very badly designed. The scenario editor is my favourite part of the game.

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From what I've read water will rock up when this engine goes back to WW2. Now don't get me wrong I'm a fan of this game but to miss water out in the Syrian setting was for me a bit of a disappointment. Having looked around the 'scape on Google Earth there are shed loads of water features and as we all know water is the basis of human life - ergo - settlement of any description must = nearby water.

Trawling around Iraq and Afghanistan - same deal and although it's not part of the backstory the developers must have thought - ok modern game set it in the Middle East with FSU kit on one side and US Army on the other - modders and scenario designers will start to look around and do scenarios set in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Certain areas of Afghanistan you can get around - I basically use a marsh tile for the 'wadi edge' and gravel tiles for the wadi - if you look at some areas in Helmand on Google Earth you'll see how accurate that can be ... but I can't do the Helmand River.

Luckily - this will get sorted out by the time World War 2 returns - and I thought if finished in 1945 but hey I've been wrong before.

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According to what Steve posted in the Marines thread in the main forum...

Everything that's going into Normandy won't be ported. Instead it'll appear in CM:SF 2 which will be in a temperate environment.

That is, however, good news because it sounds as though all those other items people wanted might make it in to that release...though given Steve's sentiment that each setting should get 3 modules...

That could be a LONG wait!

Marines Fall 08

Brit Summer 09

EuroForce Winter 10

Normandy Summer 10

1st Expansion Spring 11

2nd Expansion Winter 11/12

3rd Expansion Fall 12

CM:SF 2 Summer 2013

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Normandy summer 2010.....Nooooooooooooo!

Anyway, I feel rather than adding alot more flavour objects to CMSF it would be better if BFC took another look at the building textures. Most of them are very clean and sterile, giving a generally sanitised representation of a middle eastern urban environment. If the textures were dirtied up a bit with weathering, old posters, faded painted advertising signs etc, the towns could look alot more realistic.

Maybe one of the more dedicated modders will take this up as challenge as they did in the CMx1 titles.

P.S. I'd still like to see civilian vehicles added as a flavour objects.

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I don't know how medlinke came up with that schedule, but it has nothing to do with our schedule :)

I think medlinke is thinking that you guys are only working on one game/module at a time, which from what Steve and others have said, seems not to be the case. I, of course, have no actual idea of a timeline though.

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