OBJ DIANE

[rogue187]

Trying to play the opening mission to OBJ DIANE, but am having a very hard time. For those of you who are not at this point, don't read on. If you have gotten to this point, please help. 6 Strykers vs a dozen or so BMP and T-62s is really becoming a problem. In the opening, I held the town for a bit then blew up all of the BMPs. At the cost of 6 Javelins (one BMP needed two Javelins to die). This leaves me with one squad empty on these weapons, but 2 squads that are still full. I have tried this mission twice and it was the first run though that I was shocked by the appearance of the T-62s. This means that I am at or very close to Phase Line Charlie when they appear...this also means that they whack my strykers in about 6 seconds. Even being prepared, the ATGM Strykers don't get more than one or two shots off at most before they die. One time my HQ died in the first shot so I lost my Apaches. Second time, I kept him alive. Any suggestions?

[ August 17, 2007, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: rogue187 ]

[metalbrew]

I've played through that a few times. It's a linear puzzle to be solved by saving every turn and restarting as needed.

Once I killed the BMPs with the ATGM Strykers and placed my infantry in the lower ditch and ambushed the T62. No friendly losses.

Once I put the infantry in the village and the ATGM Strykers roughly in the BMP setup zone. No friendly losses.

As a general tip only allow 1 of your Javelin equipped units to have LoS to the location the T62s pop out, this prevents 2 Javelins from striking the same T62. As the Javelin team runs out of missiles, rotate a new squad to the roof.

This battle is just an Ah-Ha! type puzzle. There's no valid tactic for advancing across the map in IFVs and then fight off 15 T62s that pop up out of nowhere in knife fighting range. Either you know they're gonna pop out and ambush them or everyone dies. It helps to figure out what minute they're programmed to pop out and then time Apache strikes to be orbiting already when they appear.

A very tedious mission.

[thelmia]

I lucked out. Out of TOWs, out of Javelins, and my helo airstrike owns the entire BTR platoon with one missile and I get a total victory.

Yeah, it takes several tries. I targeted each javelin individually to get around that problem.

[molotov_billy]

yeah, lame scenario tricks. oops, 5 T-62 tanks popped out right in front of us. just didnt see them coming over those vast desert plains.

anyway, save often. keep in mind that you can target individual vehicles with your apaches - even the 30mm will eventually make the T-62's bail after a few passes. A single pass will at least immobilize them.

[KNac]

Which is the victory threeshold for this battle? First time I played, I had destroyed all the BTR and was at Phaseline Charlie, just wondering why the cpu didn't surrender and why this scenario had so many time. Then after 5 minutes suddenly a load of T-62 materialize in the air and kick my ass. Got a major defeat.

I started again and once again I destroy all the BTR w/o loses. This time I head to phaseline charlie and ocne I'm there I press the "cease fire", got a minor win (i think). Just didn't want to wait 10 minutes until the damned tanks appeir. But saved the game so I may resume it now for curiosity.

The thing is... in both cases the next scenario was the same (one that you have to pl of m1a1, 1 pl of bradleys and soem strykers too), attack obj diane. So I wodner if i did right or no. what the ehck gonna resume this battle and kill the tanks to see if is the same battle no matter if you win or not.

IMO is not a lame trick, just the reinforcement time is too late, the tanks should come 5 minutes after the BTR, not more.

[CPL_STEELE]

must admit this missions is just a complete pain in the ass! lol

the main problem i have is that since i patched the game my missile teams miss with every shot, the ATGM vehicels also miss every time.

is this a patch related problem or just this mission.

i had got to this mission before i even patched the game, was doing great till i patched it.

[KNac]

Ok you get the same battle either way (if you lose or win doesnt matter really in this scenario).

if you want to skip the pain do this:

after finishing the first enemy reinforcements (BMPs) rush to phaseline charlie and press 'cease fire' in the menu.

would be nice to know the total of scenarios in the campaing and the branching, the camping structure.

[Swift]

I liked this scenario. But then again I did not replay it to win. I trashed the BMPs and then ran straight into the tanks. Managed to some of them before running out of missiles (they took out the AT strykers fast).

In the end I managed to kill two tanks with the use of a mk 19 stryker (the reactive armour makes for a nice show when hit by 4-5 grenades) and a single AT4 shot. As a reward my units got bombed by the Apatches (I called them in on my position but why can't the air support attack intelligently? I mean they do know the difference of a stryker and a tank don't they?)

[rogue187]

I think the thing that surprised me the most about this mission is really the huge rush of T-62s at the end. While its a good mission to learn how effecetive the Javelin is, and the intro of ATGM Strykers, it still is very hard in its current state. The problem is that the Strykers move fast enough to get to the end, and you are let wondering why the mission is not over. Then suddenly everyone dies to T-62 with reactive armor.

The few things I have learned are:

1. Javelins are not one shot kill guaranteed. I saw BMPs take 2 hits, and T-62s taking 3+ with their reactive armor.

2. ATGM Strykers are fun, but don't stand up to numbers. While their Hellfires can KO a tank in one hit, it only takes one shot to kill the Stryker.

The T-62sdo come too late really. I think most people can make it to Phase Line Charlie fast enough, but too many T-62 show up too late and too close for your small force to deal with effectivly. Also, you are very short on ATGMs for everyone. When the Strykers go, then you are down to the squads. This mission needs either another platoon of infantry, or more ATGM Strykers. Changing the time the T-62 show up will help too, it takes about 20 min for them to arrive

[Swift]

I am ok with a scenario that is not designed with the purpose of giving the player a fair chance to win (although I am not saying that this is the case here).

At least in the campaign it feels more "real" when you have to start a scenario without the knowledge that you have a good chance of making it. Sometimes the Syrians have to have a good day to

[whaco]

You can achieve a total victory on Vet mode this way. Stay where you are for 1 min and let long range TOW's take out tanks way off in the distance. Next advance to phase line Charlie. Along the way take out the 2 armoured vehicles that you come into contact with first. Take them out without using Jav's or TOW's. Machinegun on Strykers should do the trick or 40mm Stryker for sure. As soon as you have made it to Charlie phase line dismount inf units and take position in the ditch that runs parallel with charlie. Hide all Strykers in that gully/ditch as well. Keep TOW Strykers in the gully and well back from the front line fighting as you know where the T72's are coming from. TOW Strykers are best kept way in the rear and out of sight. keep inf well protected in that gully but in the front line as they will have good LOS. At approximately 28 mins left in mission you will now see T72's begin to appear. Have your chopper ready before battle begins and click on any two T72's that you first see appear. Follow this and you should have at least 4 Strykers and all inf left intact after the battle. Also keep in mind once your TOW Strykers are Ko'd it is game over. You must keep them from being destroyed till main battle is over.

[ August 19, 2007, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: whaco ]

[KNac]

Originally posted by rogue187:

1. Javelins are not one shot kill guaranteed. I saw BMPs take 2 hits, and T-62s taking 3+ with their reactive armor.

Not really, if it's a top attack is instant kill (if it hits off course). There is a bug or something, I've noticed this, but no way on earth can any vehicle stand up a Javelin.

It could be it has missed by a few meters or could be an other of these LOS/LOF odities. But in 99,9% of cases it would be a kill.

[tiger123]

Not in this scenario but I once had a T-72 survive after 5 Javelin hits. Admittedly the main gun,tracks,and optics destroyed. All hits were frontal and were over a 60 sec period.

PS It remained operational-ie the crew did not bail out.

[Stew]

I've also seen T-72s survive 3-5 Javelin hits on at least two occasions (though not in this scenario). Both times the tanks were parked next to buildings. I'm wondering if the Javelin was clipping part of the building and exploding early?

[rogue187]

I probably sould not have worded the one shot kill guarantee quite the way I did. I was mainly under the impression that there was not many AFVs that could susvive more than one hit from a Javelin.

Still I have noticed one oddity. I am trying the campaing in elite mode now and in the first mission I watched two Javelins so sailing off the map. I was like NO! what a waste of ammo! Then in the next minute I see smoke off-board in the distance. Then I thought, did that Javelin destroy a tank off-board? Should this happen? Do they have that kind of range?

[Ardem]

I don't mind suprises but that t-62 rush right where you suppose to go firm idiotic. the scenario creator for this one should got back to design school, you don't have instant pops right in front of you.

I had half my recon platoon in that low area to cover my left flank if they came from obj diane, cause there was a decent amount of space, for an assualt from that direction.

It was a great map up to that point. Seriously I expect better from a default map then that.

[George MC]

Hi Ardem

Thanks for the comments. If you would care to pay for me going back to design school that would be much appreciated – I know how rich you Aussies are

Just caught this thread so it appears that everyone is having different experiences with it. When playtesting this the arrival of the Syrian units did not pose a problem as it would appear the Beta testers moved more cautiously.

The reason for the sudden appearance is that in RL the ground just past OBJ Diane is very well farmed with lot’s of woodland, orchards, villages etc. You do from desert to agricultural land very quickly. So that mob are not motoring over the open desert to get there.

I take the point about stuff beaming in. believe me I hate that as much as anyone else. In my forlorn defence the timing of the T72s worked out OK in testing, as moving to contact saw meeting the first Syrian units and going firm to take them on. In all the playtests this meant that the Stryker unit was still around the village area when the tanks appeared and so this sudden tank arrival was less of an issue.

It now appears that for some more aggressive players pushing forward hard and fast that this timing leads to some very unsatisfactory happenings.

I’m afraid that for now I can’t amend this one. All I can suggest is players take it slower!

Cheers fur noo

George

[Andro]

First time the tanks kill me. Waiting what the hell is going on, on the corner of the map.

But next try I hit the first wave of BMPs with the cover of the the village. Then advance to the middle, there a several possible ambush sites. Wait till the enemy arrived and attack from from several firing positions at the same time.

Its all about terrain and cover. Simple. Who need the Apaches?

[ August 28, 2007, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Andro ]

[Thomm]

IIRC I killed everything that moved in this mission, for no own losses, first try veteran ... only Javelin teams where ever exposed to the enemy, the Strykers were down in the wadis, or dashing from wadi to wadi, until the final phase line was reached.

Nevertheless, I think I did not even get a victory, because of some objective that was not told to me in the briefing (or so I remember).

Nice mission, but frustrating outcome.

Best regards,

Thomm

[whaco]

Thomm, read my post further up the page. You should receive a total vic on OBJ Diane mission. Practice makes perfect.

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by George Mc:

In all the playtests this meant that the Stryker unit was still around the village area when the tanks appeared and so this sudden tank arrival was less of an issue.

It now appears that for some more aggressive players pushing forward hard and fast that this timing leads to some very unsatisfactory happenings.

George, I realize that the ship has already sailed so this is just talking at this point.

The setup zone was the entire eastern edge of the map. The village was not an objective of the Blue force. So, I paid no attention to village until the 2nd or 3rd playthrough with the thought that I had no business wandering through an unfriendly village when it wasn't part of the mission orders. I setup near the southern end of the map and moved forward using the Slow movement command. I arrived at the final phaseline right when the T-62's appeared. No rush was involved, I killed the BMPs and kept moving for the objectives.

If the setup zone kept the vehicles near the village I would've played differently. If the western and southern edges of the map were larger and included some the wooded farmland and the T-62s (and later BRDM-2s) were deployed on the far side of these new map features it would've given players a much less linear experience despite having a smaller setup zone. It would've been fine if the T-62s were still out of LoS but I could see the ominous dark forest and dust trails rising up for 3 minutes.

[George MC]

Hi Metalbrew

Good points mate. The map was larger but we cut the map down as there was some concern as to whether players could run this map on their machines.

Re the set-up zone I am sure that originally the set-up zone was just the road. Can't mind if I chnaged it or not, but the scenario building was all done to very tight deadlines so I may be getting confused with some other stuff

Anyways thanks for the comments - all good stuff

Cheers fur noo

George

[UrbanCoyote]

My initial experience worked out as designed. I scouted the village (I was paranoid of RPGs in the area) and set the TOW Strikers just at the ridges of a couple of high points.

At about this time, I noticed dust clouds and got everyone in or around the village with Javelins ready. The BMPs were spotted but my hit rate was terrible. Many Javelins were wasted against the initial scouting.

At this point, I knew bad things were coming as a few BMPs racing across open terrain is classic Soviet doctrine for an armored thrust. Besides, this scenario mentioned trapping tanks so I knew something was coming and wanted to hit it from range with missiles I made sure everyone was well positioned and waited.

End result, both TOW strikers died, but all tanks but one were killed. An Apache finished him off. I was out of Javs and one BMP made it into the village. I was a bit worried, but it ended up being a cool moment. I had a chance to maneuver a squad in for an AT4 kill.

First time through with a Minor Victory. Lucky for me I played like the play testers

[Broken]

First time through with a Minor Victory. Lucky for me I played like the play testers

I played a very slow game as well, but ran out of TOWs, Javelins, Apaches and even AT-4s. Last two T-62s wouldn't die despite repeated Apache strikes. They hunted down my empty ATGM Strykers, which I found out after the game were worth mucho points for the Syrians. Tactical defeat for me, despite owning Phaseline Charlie.

The key mistake for me was bad AT ammo management. The lesson was: save the TOWs for tanks. The Apaches and Javelins were not very effective against tanks for me in this battle.

Definitely a scenario worth playing again sometime. Desperation kills of T-62s with AT-4 flank shots was fun, :cool: .