Other Means Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I've not seen it all yet: http://www.guardian.co.uk/video/page/0,,2125978,00.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 This should probably be in the general forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted July 14, 2007 Author Share Posted July 14, 2007 Possibly. Up to the admins I guess, I'm making no political point with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSY Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Originally posted by Speedy: This should probably be in the general forum. I dunno, it doesn't seem less relevant than a lot of the other threads we've had in the CM:SF forum. Is this any less relevant than "Me and my M-14", "Peter and Dan Snow: Yom Kippur War: BBC2 21:00 Tonight", "Another skirmish in Iraq !", or "IEDs in Baquba"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikoyanPT Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 It is talking about a Stryker brigade, about equipment and combat situations similar to the ones simulated in CM:SF. It would be wrong in the forum of CM.BB or CM:AK or ToW. In CM.SF forum it looks adequated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 clearly winning the hearts and minds ..... I love America, but your leaders are mad, if they think that this situation will not end in a desaster for all parties involved ..... how I wish Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld would be dragged out of their ranches and mansions and thrown to the streets of Baghdad to fight over there themselves.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 deleted per user request 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Originally posted by AdamL: I think they are well aware of what is going on over there, much better than you are. I sure would hope so, being the ones responsible for it. "Old Europe" had its share of wars too, you know, so we recognize a lost war (cause), if we see one ..... I'm not an American, but I feel sad for those young men and women and their families and I mean it. I have no love for the insurgents and islam, but it is their country after all and it is a given that they fight against foreign troops, wouldn't you ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Interesting video. I'm not sure if it explained much in the way of tactics, for example it wasn't evident why they breached either home. Yes an IED went off, but why those homes in particular? Interesting to see the Stryker move out ahead of the soldiers when they begin patrolling (after the Bradley gets wasted)--is that SOP? Or was the area controlled? Hopefully my questions get answered before this thread derails any further. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikoyanPT Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Originally posted by konstantine: Interesting video. I'm not sure if it explained much in the way of tactics, for example it wasn't evident why they breached either home. Yes an IED went off, but why those homes in particular? My bet would be ! That houses were near and they needed cover. When bullets start flying a soldier has to keep focus on staying alive, more complicated tactical assumptions are irrelevant. And people, remember, this is not a political forum, we are only friends that like a good tactical game and like to discuss strategy and... uhmmm... you know... important stuff... like the color of Syrian taxis... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 There were no bullet sounds though. And the narrator didn't mention the soldiers were being fired upon--a pretty salient oversight. Also the soldiers were running upright, not ducked and scrambling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Konstantine, Often the troops start looking for the triggerman and searching the nearby houses for either a lookout, triggerman, or evidence of the two. And they can be anywhere. Even in old ladies homes (I feel very sorry that she had to be caught up in this). I can sympathise with the interviewed troops sentiments; I had gotten back from a full Afghanistan deployment and less than three monthes later was in Iraq. After that, I was in Afghanistan again within four monthes. Out of a period of three years I was overseas for almost two and a half of them. It rubs you raw and bone tired being on that kind of alertness day after day after day. [ July 14, 2007, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Normal Dude ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Originally posted by wolf66: I have no love for the insurgents and islam, but it is their country after all and it is a given that they fight against foreign troops, wouldn't you ? They don't spend most of their time fighting US troops, they spend most of it killing civilians (and each other). [ July 14, 2007, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Normal Dude ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Dammit, double post 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Originally posted by Normal Dude: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wolf66: I have no love for the insurgents and islam, but it is their country after all and it is a given that they fight against foreign troops, wouldn't you ? They don't spend most of their time fighting US troops, they spend most of it killing civilians (and each other). </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalbrew Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Originally posted by wolf66: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Normal Dude: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wolf66: I have no love for the insurgents and islam, but it is their country after all and it is a given that they fight against foreign troops, wouldn't you ? They don't spend most of their time fighting US troops, they spend most of it killing civilians (and each other). </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikoyanPT Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Originally posted by konstantine: There were no bullet sounds though. And the narrator didn't mention the soldiers were being fired upon--a pretty salient oversight. Also the soldiers were running upright, not ducked and scrambling. The big problem with real life is that good guys and bad guys don´t have a green or red baloon over their heads, and they don´t announce before they try to kill you. War is a nasty and messy thing to be in. Make wargames not war, the fun and excitement is there, the fear and anguish don´t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Toleran Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Awesome post, Other Means. This totally belongs here, you've got Strykers, combat, even a suspected enemy agent being shot (though it sounds like it plausibly just could have been the local cabbie soliciting work, so that was sad) -- if anything, this is much better quality than the raw footage I usually post up here. Keep up the good work [ July 15, 2007, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Capt. Toleran ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolf66 Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Originally posted by metalbrew: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wolf66: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Normal Dude: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wolf66: I have no love for the insurgents and islam, but it is their country after all and it is a given that they fight against foreign troops, wouldn't you ? They don't spend most of their time fighting US troops, they spend most of it killing civilians (and each other). </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Originally posted by MikoyanPT: The big problem with real life is that good guys and bad guys don´t have a green or red baloon over their heads, and they don´t announce before they try to kill you. War is a nasty and messy thing to be in. Make wargames not war, the fun and excitement is there, the fear and anguish don´t. Well, duh. No need to be patronising. I am asking sensible questions. What SOP are the soldiers in that video following? I see a Stryker move out with soldiers following it. Why? They are not under fire by any sensible interpretation of the video clip, both sound and movement. Then the soldiers breach two successive nearby homes without any explanation. Why? Aren't most remotely triggered IEDs triggered by infra-red or cell phones these days. Wouldn't a spotter be at least a block or two away? Quite frankly it appears they breach two random homes for no other reason than that they can. That could be wholly due to the lousy narration, I don't know. All I'm saying is I don't understand the actions in the video. The only thing that's clear is that the Bradley got wasted and appeared to be travelling by itself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikoyanPT Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I don´t think any Bradley got wasted, the iraq soldier hit was outside the vehicle. They needed to ocupy a house to treat the injured man before evacuation. When in a patrol in hostil terrain, a patrol has to move cautiously, it seems like you think that there is only danger when shots are fired. These patrols are being conducted for months, these men know were an attack can be launched, and an old lady house is excellent for an attack,the old lady can´t kick insurgent´s out of her house, if they chose to get in. I was not patronising ( i don´t even know what this word is). But please make an effort to remember these guys are fighting a war, they are not in hollidays having fun, they would prefer be home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I am NOT there but my understanding is that continually improved jamming has forced the insurgents to revert to shorter ranged methods that include actual wires in many cases. Thus the houses in immediate proximity to an IED fall under immediate and justified suspicion. Also the frequency of ambushes in coordination with IED attacks means that they have to follow counter ambush procedures after a bomb until the situation is clearer. Lastly, and this is purely my own opinion, the deep suspicion that even if the residents of a given house did not set the bomb they knew it was there probably deeply colors soldiers attitudes. In evidence of my last assertion I have read several articles to the effect that successful IED attacks have dropped sharply in Anbar because the people simply point out that the "repaired " pothole or "junk" car did not even exist 24 hours ago now that their tribal leadership has told them to actually help. In goes the robot and boom goes the bomb, with at worst a beaten up robot to show for it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_56M Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Iraq was never a part of the US - Fact Us led forces invaded Iraq - FactYou left a part out... The elected Iraqi government, elected by the people of Iraq has asked the US to NOT leave yet because they cannot fight the insurgancy on thier own - Fact The insurgents may live there, but it is not their country. It is their country as much as the US is the Neo Nazi's country or Northern Ireland belongs to the IRA, or Spain belongs to Eta, or France belongs to rioting immigrants... War is not pretty, it is a very tragic human condition and cancer in society... It is also never simple, cut and dry like a video game about tactics. (Comments above are the opinon of a military historian and American Soldier.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I see. Thanks for the added info guys. I am aware it's a warzone, my questions are wholly out of curiosity mixed with ignorance. I'm not implying any criticism. Also Mikoyan, to clarify: in the video there are two separate incidents. The first involves the Bradley, the second involves the ambush of Iraqi troops. The soldiers following the Stryker on patrol occurs after the Bradley gets wasted. Both houses are breached on that occasion. Then, the old lady's house is entered again, on the second occasion, to treat the wounded Iraqi (who lives or dies, who knows). My conclusion is that while the video is interesting the narration is complete crap. There is no context, just a series of disconnected vignettes with interviews of some understandably shaken up soldiers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikoyanPT Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Konstantine Yep i saw rhe movie yesterday, didn´t remember the Bradley incident, my bad. But it ilustrates how hard this war is, people keep dying, but there is no enemy on sight to shoot at. The stress and frustration of the situation is constant. About the journalist work, well, that´s wath journalists do, sell their story and keep the "boring", "uninteresting" stuff out for our viewing pleasure. And of course an old lady or children crying is always excellent to keep audiences aroused. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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