MikeyD Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Another unscoped M14. Again, more than a year ago. I don't think they were shipping these things over as marksman rifles, originally. I think they were just meant to be a little added 7.62mm punch for the boys. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalbrew Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well, both of those rifles pictured have the full-automatic selector. This makes me think they're not issued for marksmanship. The full-auto M14 is supposed to be tough to control so I'd guess both operators are special forces guys. The M14 mounting rail uses the stripper clip guide, directly above and behind the bolt. The mounting system to the side was used for the M1D (Garand). I haven't seen any side mounts for the M14 that were issued to troops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 FYI, the last picture MikeyD put up shows the not-much-liked shoulder/upper arm protection option for the Interceptor II armor vest. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Since they didn't originally seem to be 'officially' considered marksman weapons, if M14 rifles appear in the game should they simply be sprinkled randomly within a unit? - laying around to be picked up in a Stryker or Humvee or tent, like AT assets? And what kind of firepower would they have? Treat 'em like a BAR? If its true that sniper teams and such haven't been firmed-up in the game this would be our chance to help push and prod the concept into shape 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sequoia Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I assume the Syrian/Arab player will have snipers too. How will the differ from the U.S. side? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 The TO&E of Syrian sniper teams was discussed in the extremely long " Syrian TO&E thread". I remember because it struck me as not sounding at all ad hoc, that they were actually competently organized. Let's see if I can ferret-out the appropriate snippets: -- "Standard Soviet TO&E has a dedicated RPG gunner in each squad and one guy in the platoon having a SVD sniper rifle." (this gets debated in the text) -- "I found one source that indicated a sniper was included with the recon platoon." -- "Each platoon has a sniper section. This is two men. One is armed with a late model SVD with an IR scope. He carries 60 rounds. The other man is security/spotting and carried IR binoculars and carries a AKN-74 with a 6x IR scope. I guess he would also engage targets inside of 400m" -- "Normal SVD issue scale for line MR infantry units is one SVD per platoon (my threat analyst memory and Isby, p. 161), but bear in mind that whoever has the SVD has no AK. The SVD man (Isby, p. 422) is carrying 140 rounds for his weapon, whose magazine holds ten rounds. For further excitement, and possibly mirroring the proliferation of SVDs and the like in Iraq, on p. 423 Isby notes reports from Afghanistan that the Russians tripled SVD issue in MR and VDV companies, sometimes putting all of the snipers in one squad. Urk! BTW, their snipers, while certainly not trained to our standards, are handpicked based on DOSAAF performance and get 45-60 days of in unit training; some units have sniper schools. They are much better trained than standard infantrymen and would seem to be better than the old CM sharpshooter, but not snipers in the American/British/German/? SpecOps sense." [ October 06, 2006, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yardstick Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Originally posted by Sumac: ...I'd guess both operators are special forces guys. Those guys are so not SF it's not even funny. More than likely they are MPs or some other non 11B pulling 11B duty. The first guy looks like he's trying to look cool and doing a photo op. Notice the lack of 7.62 mag storage. The second guy just screams NG. I would say he's not sportin' a scope is because he hasn't had time to get to a decent range to zero. They keep you busy so finding time to get a good zero on weapon system that you pick up in-theater can be difficult. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 The second guy could be SF, either NG or regular Army, (prolly not though). Still remember SF guys have older average age in 30s and E8s older than that sometimes) as he's at least an E8 or maybe an E9 (can't tell from the photo if there's anything in the middle there which could make him a CSM or 1SG) which means he's a team sgt or CSM. Some SF guys have taken to carrying M14s if they're arms room has some laying about or otherwise acquired some in particular if they're operating out in open areas. However if that's a CSM patch then it could be any battalion Sergeant major who's wrangled himself an M14. He would be old enough and wise enough no doubt to have pulled in some connection from somewhere to snag one. The first guy I doubt is SF since he would not carry spare mag to his sidearm as he's got it rigged, nor use that crappy regular issue pouch. However that guy prolly has his spare M14 mags stored on his vest. Also an SF guy would not have his unit patch on his left shoulder, that thing's for garrison. Los 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 I am partial to the PSG-1 myself 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 rudel.dietrich - I am partial to the PSG-1 myselflikewise! Los - The first guy I doubt is SF since he would not carry spare mag to his sidearm as he's got it rigged, nor use that crappy regular issue pouch. However that guy prolly has his spare M14 mags stored on his vest. Also an SF guy would not have his unit patch on his left shoulder, that thing's for garrison.Or have his photo taken...? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Sf guys take pictures just like everyone else. Something to show your kid someday so he doesn't think you were shovelling **** in louisiana... Los 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Sf guys take pictures just like everyone else. Something to show your kid someday so he doesn't think you were shovelling shit in louisiana..or shoveling crap in some desert 1/2 a world away Come to think of it, it's just like the Army to find some place hotter and muggier than LA to send its people. I bet I'll hear a lot less complaining about Ft Polk now! Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEYER_1944 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 With the US spending an estimated 2 Billion per month just to keep things going in Iraq and with things looking no-where remotely close to what you could call a positive outcome! It therefore remains to be seen just how much more crap shoveling in the desert will be done! I can only see it getting a heck of alot worse for one or both parties....! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Los - Sf guys take pictures just like everyone else. Something to show your kid someday so he doesn't think you were shovelling **** in louisiana...Taking them is one thing - letting the get into the public domain uncensored so you can be identified is dumb for any operator. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEYER_1944 Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Saw a nice vid on YOUTUBE... Blackwater snipers engage insurgents...! YOUTUBE [ October 16, 2006, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: MEYER_1944 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Best shot yet of the reworked M14: "Sgt. Chris Walsh, from the Wyoming Army National Guard Police Training Team, provides overwatch security for fellow Soldiers in Sekeik, Iraq." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: [QB] Sniper Teams are independent units with 3 soldiers. The unit has three weapons: Sniper 1 - M107B Sniper 2 - M24 (to be replaced by M110) Security - M4D'oh. I'm not familiar with guns... excuse me, "weapons", and wondered about those three. But a Google for "m4 m24 m107b" just turned up some stupid computer-game forum that didn't give me any additional info... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 -The M107's the big nasty .50 cal sniper rifle. -The M24 is a bolt-action 7.62x51 NATO caliber rifle -The M4 is that little M16-looking 5.56mm carbine everyone's carrying nowadays. -The M14 above doesn't seem to be 'official' but its in a lot of pictures! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 "Taking them is one thing - letting the get into the public domain uncensored so you can be identified is dumb for any operator." I'll throw you a clue, you can't go around and shoot every guy with a camera, particularly when your in the middle of a big city with thousands of people, journalists other soldiers etc. Likewise there's nothing to actually ID either one as SF. It would be a silly excercise to even determine the circumstances of how or why those pictures are taken. Subscribe to the military channels there are thousands of hours of documentaries many of them of special operations forces from many countries in action or in training. Los 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Originally posted by MikeyD: [QB] -The M107's the big nasty .50 cal sniper rifle.Oh yeah, "The Barrett". That explains why they'd have two different sniping rifles. Thanks. ...snip..And thanks again! Ok. Now two hits from the same computer-game forum, with some additional info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Note that the M107B is semi auto, the M107 is bolt action. The M110 SASS is kinda like a super customized M4 in 7.62 cal instead of 5.56. It's a semi-auto sniper rifle that is capable of holding its own in a straight up firefight. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Los - Sorry, I applied basic soldiering logic to special forces avoiding having their photo taken unless in a controlled or censored manner - i.e. KSK here http://mitglied.lycos.de/miscstuff/KSK_pics/KSK_Humvee_closeup.jpg Looking into it I see the US Army SF command doesn't follow this basic precept! These guys avoid having their photo taken:- Delta SEALs SAS GIGN/1er RPIMa KSK Spetnaz For some reason these guys don't? (which I think is pretty f***ing dumb) Green Berets Likewise there's nothing to actually ID either one as SFNo when I said ID I meant their faces - SF shouldn't wear any uniform ID on Ops. The nature of the work undertaken by SF operators means anonymity is a key attribute. Therefore my point re the photos above is that those guys are highly unlikely to be genuine SF operators if they follow the basic rule of this type of work. Unfortunately my logic here is completely undermined by the shabby methods employed by the US Army SF command regarding their own security... The logic is, special forces should be able to operate in the knowledge that their families cannot be targeted, they cannot be coerced, that they cannot be identified on undercover ops etc. However, for some reason this basic security measure has failed to adhere in the US Army's SFGs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 cassh, The nature of the work undertaken by SF operators means anonymity is a key attributeLos knows what he is talking about. Reread his last post again you will see that he isn't saying that they love to have their pictures taken without obscuring their identity, rather he is saying that it is a fool's game to think that one can control such a thing in the real world. So if there is nothing to ID a soldier as SF in a picture, then chances are it does no actual harm. For a picture to do harm someone has to be able to leverage it in a tangible way. That's exceedingly unlikely for the reasons Los stated. SF ops, like anything, is a compromise between ideal and practical considerations. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 BTW, nice find there MikeyD! That is one mean looking mod Oh, and note the quantity of pistol ammo he has on him. Looks like he is prepared for a long drawn out Wild West style shoot'n match. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: BTW, nice find there MikeyD! That is one mean looking mod Oh, and note the quantity of pistol ammo he has on him. Looks like he is prepared for a long drawn out Wild West style shoot'n match. Steve Those may be pistol ammo pouches, but are you sure it's actually 9mm magazines he's carrying inside them? If you look closely at the top of the pouch, It looks to me like shape of whatever's inside has a cylindrical protrusion of some kind on the top, like a lid or a cap, which would be wrong for an M9 mag, or any other semi-auto pistol mag I know of. But maybe my overactive imagination is leading me astray. . . I dunno what else they could be. Tear gas? Smoke? Batteries? Nips of Wild Turkey to take the edge off? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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