PBEM-fans unite!

[Michael Dorosh]

The bloody Finns never used Bren Tripods, though if they did, I bet they were allowed to run with them...

[Battlefront.com]

Sergei,

So Stev-o, how's it going on with modelling the Finnish Defence Forces?

I checked the Battlefront.com PO Box today and have yet to find any Finnish m/05 camouflage uniforms in it. I thought I made myself clear... I only make decisions based on bribes. No bribes, no modeling. Very simple equation. Well, except that I am picky about what the bribe is

Steve

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Occasionally this gets forgotten. People like Sumac go on a tear and refuse to listen. And that is the truth. In order to bolster what is at heart an emotional argument there is often an attempt to put rational reasons in order to not come off sounding like a 10 year old who didn't get what he wanted for Christams.

Here's the thing, you want the fight. That's really all you care about. If you really wanted PBEM threads to die you wouldn't wade in every PBEM post swinging. But yet, here you are, again.

I added my thoughts to this thread more or less to point out how you get entertainment and sport from calling customers stupid. You're possibly the only forum admin I've ever come across that's an active troll on their own board.

[Battlefront.com]

Sumac,

Here's the thing, you want the fight. That's really all you care about.

Ah... no. I want you to listen so there will be no need for a fight. I put it to you that YOU are the one that wants a fight. Otherwise, why get all emotional and bothered by something that isn't even a real issue? The way I see it is you WANT to have something to bitch at us about and when I've taken that reason away from you simply pretend I haven't said anything and keep on bitching.

If you really wanted PBEM threads to die you wouldn't wade in every PBEM post swinging. But yet, here you are, again.

Yeah, because people like you won't accept a simple answer and instead try to smear us. Check out my first post in this thread, check out what happened after.

I added my thoughts to this thread more or less to point out how you get entertainment and sport from calling customers stupid.

I did not call you or anybody else stupid. I said you can't read or understand simple and well explained concepts. The record is pretty clear on that, so this is a factual statement. You are apparently the only person in this thread that doesn't understand that. So either you don't listen or you are in fact stupid. I've only said you don't listen, which again is a factual statement.

You're possibly the only forum admin I've ever come across that's an active troll on their own board.

Ah... so you can attack us and we can't counter? Nice game, but we don't play that way. We are obligated to answer questions on this Forum because, well, because you guys expect it. I'm sorry if you don't like an honest reply, but that's what you get here. Nothing trollish about that. You're behavior, on the other hand...

Steve

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Yeah, because people like you won't accept a simple answer and instead try to smear us. Check out my first post in this thread, check out what happened after.

You realize that I'm not asking for PBEM functionality in this thread or outside of the thread I started a few weeks ago? Probably not, I expect you don't read or listen very often.

Let me help you read between the lines: You're a rude fool and you're acting this way without any possible gain on your part. QED you're a troll.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Sumac:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Yeah, because people like you won't accept a simple answer and instead try to smear us. Check out my first post in this thread, check out what happened after.

You realize that I'm not asking for PBEM functionality in this thread or outside of the thread I started a few weeks ago? Probably not, I expect you don't read or listen very often.

Let me help you read between the lines: You're a rude fool and you're acting this way without any possible gain on your part. QED you're a troll. </font>

[Battlefront.com]

Sumac,

You realize that I'm not asking for PBEM functionality in this thread or outside of the thread I started a few weeks ago? Probably not, I expect you don't read or listen very often.

That's just the problem... I read and listen really well. Your first post in this thread was a simple insult, plain and simple. Not only that, it is factually incorrect, which I think 99.9% of the people on this Forum would side with me on. Such an opening shot is usually the hallmark of someone who is not interested in anything but starting trouble. AKA a Troll.

OK, so you clearly did start out without asking for PBEM functionality, just being a useless wiseass. Let's look at your second post and see what it contains and where I might have gone wrong with my reading skills. Your second post is as follows:

Your mind is made up, you can't be reasoned with. You can't identify who's the customer in this situation. You've said before if the old customers don't like the game, screw 'em: you'll just go find new customers.

Well, I dare you. Here's your chance to prove me and other wrong. Leave PBEM out and see how the game fairs. I double dog dare you. I triple dog dare you.

You're absolutely diluted if you think the argument of the PBEM bigots boils down to a lack of reading/listening skills. Diluted.

Oh, and the idea that it may not be technically possible is crap. If it's not technically possible, and you're the technologist, then who's to blame? That's a pile of manure that's been spread way too thin. Either you make a good game or you don't -- that's all that matters.

Lastly, you realize that you attacked first, right? I didn't use language any more harsh than you lead off with and you immediately escalated into these insanely bad impressions of your core customers. For shame.

So there you go... you're abusive and you're going on and on about PBEM functionality. Not so in your mind, then pray tell... what gem of knowledge of yours did I misread?

Let me help you read between the lines: You're a rude fool and you're acting this way without any possible gain on your part. QED you're a troll.

You're right about one thing... there is really no possible gain in arguing with you. You're a total loss. Oh, and a Troll.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

BTW, Sumac should note that no "core customers" have not lined up on your side of the argument. Quite the opposite. I put forth the theory that is because they listen.

Oh, and check back to some of the original heated PBEM threads. Many argued quite emotionally for PBEM and against decisions we made or perhaps might make regarding PBEM, yet here they are poking holes and fun at your faulty positions. Why is that? Most likely because they listened.

Steve

[metalbrew]

Sure I made that post, right after you made this post. ...and if you look even higher up in the thread, the entire thing begins with you being an over the top jackass to a customer who asked for PBEM. What a dumbass.

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Sumac,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />If anyone isn't listening very well, it's BFC.

What a bunch of horsecrap. I've heard every emotional, unreasonable, illogical, and down right asinine argument for PBEM in addition to all the reasonable ones. The answer to all of them is the same:

We want PBEM in. The only reason why it won't go in is if it is technically impossible.

Please, explain to me how this very simple statement proves your point. Otherwise, you've proved my point that I'm not being listened to.

Becket,

"Steve: if it's technically impossible to do PBEM, then rebuild the game so that it is possible."

Yup, that's what it all boils down to. An unreasonable and irrational demand based on a single feature. I agree that PBEM is important, but it is ridiculous to make any case that states the game would not be worth a damned if it doesn't have it. And what's the point anyway, since we've already said hundreds of times that we want the feature in.

Here's how this idiotic conversation (and it is idiotic) goes each and every time:

PBEM Bigot - you have to put in PBEM. It's the most critical thing in the whole wide world.

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

PBEM Bigot - PBEM is more than important, it is the only reason I get up in the morning. Put it in.

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

PBEM Bigot - you're not listenting to me. PBEM is important, put it in!!! What is wrong with you?

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

PBEM Bigot - obviously I'm not making myself clear enough. I represent 99.99999% of your customers because I say so. And because I represent 99.99999% of your customers you have to do what I say. And I say put in PBEM!

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

PBEM Bigot - ARGH!!! You're still not listening. Look... it's the only way I play the game. I love PBEM. You HAVE to put it in.

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

PBEM Bigot - I can not believe this arrogance! I made you who you are today, you MUST LISTEN TO ME DAMNIT!! PUT IN PBEM or ELSE!

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

PBEM Bigot - you still don't get it. I will demand, demand, and DEMAND that you bend to my will because I am important. And I demand that you put in PBEM. Now, what do you say to that?

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

PBEM Bigot - what the f is wrong with you? Why is it that you can't grasp the simple fact that PBEM is critically important to my personal tastes? What do I have to say to make you understand that you MUST put in PBEM?

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

PBEM Bigot - I'm going to storm off this thread now and stew in my own juices for a while. I'll come back in a few weeks and start up a new thread and demand PBEM again, because there is a chance you'll have seen the light.

Me - we agree that PBEM is important, but it might not be technically possible. That's the only reason why it won't go in.

-------------

Worst of all, throughout this whole repeated idiotic repetition of something that shouldn't have gone on for more than 10 posts, we keep saying that it looks good that PBEM will get in. Recently I even said that chances are extremely high that it will get in. Yet still, the PBEM Bigots out there aren't satisfied. That menas neither simple logic nor reassurances that they have nothing to worry about aren't good enough.

To repeat an overused quote:

"Insanity is defined as repeating the same action over and over again and expecting a different result"

Our position is the same now as it was the very first time it was brought up. It is insane to think that after all this time we're going to say "oh, looks like PBEM isn't technically possible. Check back in 2009 for the totally rewritten, dumbed down, and technically backwards version of CM:SF instead of the one we were planning on releasing soon".

Nuts!

Steve </font>

[Sergei]

Maybe you forgot this one?

Originally posted by Sumac:

If anyone isn't listening very well, it's BFC.

[WineCape]

Sumac,

At the risk of alienating you and siding with Steve, which will alienate you even more...

BFC has made repeated statements about PBEM a year ago. This has been dealt with before, heatedly. Many times. Many times heatedly. To the point where Steve started yelling back, not after posting many clear and lucid reasonings as to the design decision that they cannot PROMISE PBEM 100% before hand. This is not an issue anymore, as it seems they have PBEM workable in CM:SF. So why keep beating the dead horse to a vapour?

A simple search regarding 'PBEM' would probably spared you this rather uninformed (and rude, dare I say) statement:

If anyone isn't listening very well, it's BFC.

Who can blame Steve, after so many postings in the past about this PBEM issue, that he will act a little crass. It has bean dealt with, many times. Heatedly.

Steve's attitude is understandable, if you have done some research by fingering the SEARCH button. But I assume you have not? And that, I venture, is the reasoning for your misunderstanding.

And if you have done a search, for god's sake; you keep everyone waiting for other bones.

Sincerely,

Charl Theron

[ October 20, 2006, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: WineCape ]

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Maybe you forgot this one?

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sumac:

If anyone isn't listening very well, it's BFC.

</font>

[metalbrew]

Originally posted by WineCape:

Steve's attitude is understandable, if you have done some research by fingering the SEARCH button. But I assume you have not?

You're refering to my original post several weeks ago?

If so, sure I searched. I read the comments. After reading those comments, I noticed Steve mentioned that he didn't feel PBEM was widely used feature in the CMx1 games. So I posted my testimony toward PBEM as my +1 vote.

Go back read my thread, I'm not lying and I can read and listen.

[Kineas]

Originally posted by RMC:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kineas:

No, the alternative is a predesigned, 'must have' feature what only needs to be implemented. Or a predesigned and dropped feature (which makes the current situation quite good actually).

Care to elaborate? It seems you think it is all too easy for BTS to just make PBEM happen and all that is lacking is the will. I think they are trying to design the best game they can and that sacrificing design elements just so it can fit the mold for one of the modes of play in their previous games is the wrong tack.

</font>

[Dschugaschwili]

Ok, guys, this isn't going anywhere anymore. The problem is that it's not even possible anymore to ask if PBEM will be in without getting somebody to demand that PBEM absolutely has to be in the game and if not, several bad things will happen. Actually, it's not even possible to ask if there's any new information on the topic without getting someone started.

Apparently - and we just have to believe Steve on this one - Battlefront cannot promise that PBEM will definitely be in because there may be unforseen technical difficulties ahead. If this answer isn't good enough for you, go ahead and don't buy the game. But don't ask for the impossible from Steve.

Dschugaschwili

[Battlefront.com]

Sumac,

Nope, didn't forget that at all. That's the exact same insult Steve directed at the original poster (and PBEM bigots in general). How is it an insult when the subect is Steve and not an insult when directed at the original poster?

Not an insult, a statement of fact. And yes, it is fact. You are absolutely proving that. This is a VERY simple issue that is repeatedly blown up into something that it absolutely doesn't need to be.

This entire exchange boils down to the rude nature Steve adopts towards customers. He doesn't miss a chance to patronize grown adults which pretty much convinces me he's not one.

Riiiiiiiight. And someone that is calling me a "jackass" and a "dumbass" is what, a sparkling example of an intellectually capable of engaging in a rational debate?

So I posted my testimony toward PBEM as my +1 vote.

No you did not. You posted a taunt that I've only heard children utter to each other on the playground (the dare post you made).

Sumac, what you fail to understand is that it is immature, irrational, intellectually devoid behavior like yours that keeps what should be an open and shut easy answer case (ironically, to the satisfaction of PBEM supporters) boiling over into yet another useless thread.

Now, I have been quite patient with your insults, abuse, lack of rational discussion, and other trollish behavior. Take a step back, a deep breath, and decide for yourself if you want to continue posting here or not. If you do, then knock it off. You are so over the line I shouldn't even give you the choice, but that's the kind of thing a grown adult does. Your choice will reflect upon your character, not mine, just as it has throughout this entire thread.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Kineas,

I didn't say it's easy. Neither is designing realtime mode. But realtime was considered an important feature, pbem wasn't. That was my point.

Which is something I have argued is not a valid point. It wasn't a choice between RT and PBEM. Not then, not now. It was a choice between a free flowing, more realistic game made possible (in part) by a RT core simulation that can be played in either WeGo or RT mode, and having an artificially suppressed game engine in order to 100% guarantee a single feature. We even considered for the first year that perhaps playing the game in RT might not be possible, so that in fact WeGo would be the only viable way to play (even though the engine was inherently RT based. That means that even RT itself wasn't a 100% guaranteed feature. Since it now looks like we have both *and* the best possible core simulation. Hence our approach being the right one instead of the one PBEM supporters (and the extreme PBEM Bigots) were screaming about.

I used that in conditional form. If it's going to be Combat Mission 2 then people have certain expectations. They want a better Combat Mission. That's why the pbem lobby is louder.

First of all, there is no conditional. CMx2 is better than CMx1. That's a fact one can clearly see even without the game. The discussions here about things like Relative Spotting, the new artillery/air support features, damage modeling, high res modeling, etc. I know we haven't released much in the way of visuals so far, but even what we've shown so far clearly demonstrates that CMx2 is vastly improved over CMx1.

Secondly, the PBEM crowd is not arguing for a better Combat Mission when they make threads like this. Instead they are doing the opposite. Insisting that we put PBEM ahead of everything means putting PBEM ahead of improving the game itself. Fortunately, we heard the arguments (as emotional and even immature as they sometimes were) and did what we knew was right even over the objections of the PBEM Bigots. And now the PBEM supporters will almost for sure get PBEM *and* a extremely superior game rather than just PBEM and an improved game.

Steve

[ October 20, 2006, 05:56 AM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ]

[birdstrike]

Sumac,

please take a step back and and calm down. This whole thing has escalated and you did play an essential part in this. You may feel offended by Steve, but you are really acting unreasonable. If you want to be taken seriously, you have to stop making a fool out of yourself by acting like a child.

Look at it this way: Steve could just say, "Yes, PBEM is definitely in", to shut you up. If for some reason PBEM would be left out in the end, he'd face loads of people like you complaining that BFC stinks and ripped them off.

That's why he tells you that PBEM will be in CMSF, unless something unforseen happens. (Wish my gf would have been only half as honest. )

And if you got the impression Steve is making empty promises and they really never had no intention of including PBEM, then cursing BFC or Steve would not help you neither (as seen in various other "I want ... included or I won't buy the game"-threads).

So take a deep breath, stop ranting and resist the feeling to tell Steve who's right and wrong, cause when the game is out and PBEM is in, you will feel pretty stupid for causing such a ruckus in the first place.

Originally posted by Dschugaschwili:

If this answer isn't good enough for you, go ahead and don't buy the game.

Couldn't say it any better.

[birdstrike]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Take a step back, a deep breath, and decide for yourself if you want to continue posting here or not.

Damn, beat me to it!" My thoughts exactly -

note to myself: "must learn to type faster".

[aka_tom_w]

Wow

This is a spectacular demostration of tolerance and restrait, on the part of BFC to not lock this thread.

Maybe it can cool down now and just fade away.....

please...

(see my signature line for details)

-tom w

[RMC]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Maybe it can cool down now and just fade away.....

No chance, sizzlechest. I will not rest until PBIM is guaranteed...in blood.

[aka_tom_w]

you are joking right?

(sarcasm detection filter set to "Finest Granularity" for best results)

-tom w

P.S.

I believe I have been insulted, so says this web page:

web page of urban slang (AND yes, I did have to look it up because I neither an urban dweller nor an American.)

1. sizzlechest

It is used as an insult because it was made common from the Jerky Boys phonecalls and movies, but its more of a condition. Sizzlechest is light curly chest hair that appears almost like smoke puffs rising off the chest, little spirily colums of hair. Usually found on assclowns.

Shut yer hole, sizzlechest!

by Jimmy Knuckles Mar 14, 2004 email it

2. sizzlechest

A common way to say "ASSCLOWN", particularly in the Philadelphia, New Jersey region.

Eyyyyy, yo, sizzlechest. You wanna go and git a cheesesteak?

by Rian Feb 26, 2004 email it

3. Sizzlechest

a fruity ass; milky licker

You got that SiZZLeCHeST?

by Phil Dec 9, 2003 email it

[ October 20, 2006, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Kineas]

Steve,

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Kineas,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I didn't say it's easy. Neither is designing realtime mode. But realtime was considered an important feature, pbem wasn't. That was my point.

Which is something I have argued is not a valid point. It wasn't a choice between RT and PBEM. Not then, not now.

</font>

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by RMC:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Maybe it can cool down now and just fade away.....

No chance, sizzlechest. I will not rest until PBIM is guaranteed...in blood. </font>

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by Becket:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

No worries. I suspect Steve could solve his dilution problem by simply concentrating harder.

110% awesome. </font>