Extend the time limit - official request

[General_solomon]

To BFC,

This is my official request, when you have the time to allow for a unlimited or 6 to 7 hour limit option.

thank you in advance.

General_solomon

[the Fighting Seabee]

I concur.

[gibsonm]

I’m not sure there is much point unless we introduce the whole logistic train.

In that sort of timeframe water and fuel become very important (in addition to ammunition) as well as long term fatigue issues.

Even well watered (and this means drinking more water than what the deploy with) dismounted soldiers will be combat ineffective after 6hrs of non stop MOUT operations.

[Melnibone]

Do all requests have to be official now?

[gibsonm]

Not that I know of.

Besides I’m not sure who is authorised to lodge “official” requests.

I think it was termed that way to make sure it wasn’t lost in some other thread.

[thewood]

I officially request that all requests be official, officially. Unless, of course, someone official declares the request unofficial. It shall then be considered an official unofficial request. Its official.

[MikeyD]

My last scenario only lasted 50 minutes. But I easily ran my men out of ammo before then and they 'acquired' every round there was to fire out of the scenario's only BMP-2. The ability to acquire more ammo from your vehicles has the possibility to maybe double a standard scenario's length, but much more than that and it seems to me you're butting into some serious logistics issues, especially since the AI doesn't do any 'acquiring' in return. And we're not even contemplating how to handle 7 hours of AI instructions!

As a test why don't you open a favorite scenario in the editor and max-out the allotted time and extended play? Maybe go into the AI editor and time-shift the movement orders to fill, too. I'd bet you'd start bumping into a 2 hour 'tedium' threshold.

[SgtMuhammed]

Originally posted by thewood:

I officially request that all requests be official, officially. Unless, of course, someone official declares the request unofficial. It shall then be considered an official unofficial request. Its official.

Can we get an official to officiate this?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by General_solomon:

To BFC,

This is my official request, when you have the time to allow for a unlimited or 6 to 7 hour limit option.

thank you in advance.

General_solomon

In addition to MikeyD and gibsonm's excellent points (I recall an extended discussion of this with them previously), perhaps what we need to do is ask you, simply "why"? Even a link to previous discussions would do. And there have been many. Official Requests™ generally have some form of rationale...

Given the available map sizes and forces sizes, I can't see a need for it. I'll also add that in the Second World War, there were usually no vehicles to replenish ammunition from for many of the combatants, so resupply becomes an even hinkier proposition in later modules of the game system.

[__Yossarian0815[jby]]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

we need to do is ask you, simply "why"? Even a link to previous discussions would do. And there have been many. Official Requests™ generally have some form of rationale...

I support GS´s request for the folowing reason:

Playing maps take much longer in realtime than WEGO.

I have found that most scenarios turn into a "mash the pause button every 20 sec" fest, when played RT.

As for realism, I find it hard to believe that obectives such as taking small towns take only 30 - 60 min in real life...

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by __Yossarian0815[jby]:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

we need to do is ask you, simply "why"? Even a link to previous discussions would do. And there have been many. Official Requests™ generally have some form of rationale...

I support GS´s request for the folowing reason:

Playing maps take much longer in realtime than WEGO.

I have found that most scenarios turn into a "mash the pause button every 20 sec" fest, when played RT.

As for realism, I find it hard to believe that obectives such as taking small towns take only 30 - 60 min in real life... </font>

[MikeyD]

Its interesting that early in development Steve promised CMx2 would necessarily be played at a slower tempo than CMx1. But that hasn't really happened. We seem to play at a tempo every bit as frenetic as good-old CMBO! I don't think we're looking at a 'game mechanics problem' its the user (and scenario designer) who's presses for these high tempo engagements.

My most recent tank fight scenario, first build I was just throwing the AI units at the enemy. But each time i went back to massage the AI instructions the tempo got reduced more and more. It wasn't until tempo was dropped waaaay down that it started to feel like real people were manning those AI tanks. Still, I didn't have the stomach to push the scenario past an hour.

[CptWasp]

There are a lot of threads in this forum where some players disagree with some little change to the game or other player requests.

I really miss the point of such disagreements.

Personally I don't need the extended time limit, but I don't find a single good reason to forbid other players making scenarios with a very big scenario time. Since I think that elevating the time limit should be a trivial task for the great programmer behind this masterpiece called CMSF, let player ask what they need... and if you don't need a feature, don't use it!

Peace

[Code13]

If you want a 7 hour game, why not make it a mini campaign - just over the same map?

[MikeyD]

For some 'their eyes are bigger than their stomachs'. I fall into that category myself. For hobby modelers its the tank not modeled that's most desirable, for CM its the missing feature that's most wanted. Like I always wanted a good Cromwell kit. Tamiya put it out and the allure instantly evaporated. I never bothered to buy it. In CM its the ache you feel at not being able to exit off-map or play 6 hour games or rotate different uniform skins. And if those features appear? You'll maybe give 'em a spin twice before forgetting about 'em. Human nature, me-boy.

[__Yossarian0815[jby]]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by __Yossarian0815[jby]:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

we need to do is ask you, simply "why"? Even a link to previous discussions would do. And there have been many. Official Requests™ generally have some form of rationale...

I support GS´s request for the folowing reason:

Playing maps take much longer in realtime than WEGO.

I have found that most scenarios turn into a "mash the pause button every 20 sec" fest, when played RT.

As for realism, I find it hard to believe that obectives such as taking small towns take only 30 - 60 min in real life... </font>

[Sequoia]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

For some 'their eyes are bigger than their stomachs'. I fall into that category myself. For hobby modelers its the tank not modeled that's most desirable, for CM its the missing feature that's most wanted. Like I always wanted a good Cromwell kit. Tamiya put it out and the allure instantly evaporated. I never bothered to buy it. In CM its the ache you feel at not being able to exit off-map or play 6 hour games or rotate different uniform skins. And if those features appear? You'll maybe give 'em a spin twice before forgetting about 'em. Human nature, me-boy.

Well said Mikey, e.g. everyone wanted King Tigers in CMAK.

[Paper Tiger]

I posted something about this somewhere else. As the game stands at the moment, the AI has no ability to resupply during a game regardless of the assets the scenario designer gives them while the human player can. That means that the only way to get the AI to present a serious challenge to a human player over a 3+ hour engagement is to give them a massive OB or lots of reinforcements which amounts to the same thing. With smaller AI forces programmed to conserve their ammo by the scenario designer, the US player can just sit back and plaster any likely targets with area fire for as long as he wants and then resupply and come back for an easy and VERY boring victory.

However, I can understand WHY people want it if they're playing as the US side. They want to take their time and lose as few men as possible. But given unlimited time, any plausible scenario between US and Syria should always end in a US victory. That's fine by me in real life but in a game it's just boring. By restricting the time, the scenario designer can present the US player with a challenge rather than just a challenge to win with the situation with as few friendly casualties as possible.

After all that though, I don't oppose this petition. the more options we have to play the game, the better it will get. Just don't complain to a scenario designer if he chooses to make the mission shorter than YOU'D like.

[rollingt]

I really wouldn't like to play a scenario that is longer than 2 hours for all of the above reasons. Furthermore, I don't agree with the sentiment that there is no harm in giving scenario designers the option. Increasing the limit would IMO lower the standard of user made scenarios. While I don't necessarily see this as a problem for the developers, I don't think they should be actively encouraging it either.