Idea for sharpshooters (reduced borg spotting)

[Steiner14]

What, if sniper-units don't show the player exact locations and IDs of units, but instead show only their "contacts" in a list like:

2 TC commanders

1 transport

1 major

1 platoon leader

3 squads

1 team.

All the player can do is to choose a target from the list, i.e. "TC commander". But he doesn't get the information where the units are.

[juan_gigante]

That makes me happy in my pants.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Steiner14:

What, if sniper-units don't show the player exact locations and IDs of units, but instead show only their "contacts" in a list like:

2 TC commanders

1 transport

1 major

1 platoon leader

3 squads

1 team.

All the player can do is to choose a target from the list, i.e. "TC commander". But he doesn't get the information where the units are.

I'm hoping his spotting won't be as good as it is in CM; most officers (to use a WW II example) by 1944 dressed like their men. I was rereading the pictorial history of Grossdeutschland by Spezzano (?) - GOD, HONOR, FATHERLAND and there is a great shot of an infantry company commander wearing camouflage smock and helmet cover, and Mauser cartridge carriers on his belt; from a distance he looks like an ordinary rifleman.

I think sniper targets should be out of the player's control; they wouldn't be under the control of a company commander (the player) and their employment in running fights was likely minimal. They were too valuable an asset to be thrown into such battles. In the CW, the scouts and snipers were trained specialists in their own platoon as part of battalion HQ and made up an integral part of the battalion's own intelligence gathering apparatus.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Steiner14:

What, if sniper-units don't show the player exact locations and IDs of units, but instead show only their "contacts" in a list like:

2 TC commanders

1 transport

1 major

1 platoon leader

3 squads

1 team.

All the player can do is to choose a target from the list, i.e. "TC commander". But he doesn't get the information where the units are.

Ah, but without basic tactical knowledge, like how close these targets are, it could bring absolutely weird results. Like a marksman opening fire at an enemy 600m away while a squad of hostiles is marching right past him.

[Steiner14]

I agree.

It is just a basic idea for BFC, how the spotting cpabilities of snipers could be reduced and uncertainity could be increased.

I would have no problems, if the player can't choose the targets. On the other hand, for the fun it would be good, if we could decide to make TCs hide or to go for a fat major.

But whatever they decide, i hope snipers will not show the player directly what they can see.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Like a marksman opening fire at an enemy 600m away while a squad of hostiles is marching right past him.

I thought that was prevented by the existing Tac AI. Mine always tended to cool it if there were any enemy troops within, say, 100 meters.

:confused:

Michael

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Steiner14:

But whatever they decide, i hope snipers will not show the player directly what they can see.

That may seem too simple and too "harsh" for some players but I LIKE it!

Snipers and sharp shooters with Binocs could be the most easily exploited gamey loophole of the whole Relative Spotting paradigm.

I hope they play test the HELL out of snipers and relative spotting in general so players don't use snipers like bailed crews in CMBO to gain Relative spotting intel.

I agree, I am also hoping they take a long hard look at sharp shooters so they can NOT be exploited for gamey intel gathering/spotting purposes.

It might be a good idea to leave their targeting and firing %100 up to the tacAI but as always some players might complain about the lack or control over target selection. I say "Oh Well" to that.

-tom w

[ September 09, 2005, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[melb_will]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

I think sniper targets should be out of the player's control;

As much as I hate to say it I think that this would be the best approach. Given that Snipers/Sharpshooters were largely trained to be independent it makes sense for the player to order them to go to the second story and fire at opportunity targets as they become available. The Tac AI would then prioritise targets.

Note on that, at the moment I would say that the most effective use of snipers is to take out TC's (see the AK demo) This is solely because of the way that the engine treats HQ's. Does anyone know if this will be changing in the next engine. If a Company HQ is say 6 people can a sniper take out the Company commander and destroy the HQ's command bonuses or taking into account that the XO would take over then reduce Bonuses by one level.

cheers

Will

[Battlefront.com]

With Relative Spotting we don't have to worry so much about the problems of Snipers and FOs. The Snipers will still spot things out a ways further than other units might, but well... there ain't much we can do about that which would work realistically. Snipers should, therefore, not be treated differently from any other unit.

Steve

[Vanir Ausf B]

That's good to hear. I think sharpshooters work fine the way they are. The "problem" that people are talking about is really more of a god's eye view issue than one of relative spotting. I don't consider this to be a problem at all, and in fact think of it as one of CM's best attributes. The only way to "fix" this "problem" without turing CM into a command level game is through multi-multi player.

[Zalgiris 1410]

I for one would still like to have control over the targeting by snipers, at least to the extent that I can manage their fire against exposed tank crews in a time sensitive / tactical way, especially while ambushing them with a hiden ATG.

I'm referring to my technique in CMx1 which has been to open up on enemy armoured vehicles with any availiable ATGs and Panzerknockers with them being helped by snipers and HMGs employed for suppression. Their fire obviously reduces the enemies AFVs spotting abilities and especially can impact upon their return fire by hitting crew members and creating the resultant stunning shock delay. :cool:

Ideally, snipers get the hit without me having to give away the positions of my HMG net or else my HMGs can then be devoted to tackling the waves of supporting Infantry elements.

So I agree with BFC on the maintaining of player handling of snipers in CMx2 and continuing to treat them just like all the other units.

[ September 09, 2005, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]