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Steve, try clearing your cash and refreshing. Maybe try a different browser (I'm on Firefox). Can you see the much smaller version tom posted?

I think the pic was originally published in der Spiegel, but I don't know if it's hosted anywhere else than where I found it.

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Originally posted by Bertram:

Also, in both Afghanistan and Iraq the Netherlands joined the fun when asked by the US. France declined.

How do you explain we have French forces special soldiers dead in Afghanistan(2006)?

France as USA participate at the fight against terrorisme (since the beginning). Don't blend all.

France & USA are historically Friend people and I want to remember in the days following the twins towers tragedy, French people to keep silence during three minutes in memory to all dead american the 11 sep 2001.

Can't understand how some US media don't inform properly american people.

Anyway I'm not interested by CM modern war and I'm waiting for CMx2 WWII.

Pat

[ October 03, 2006, 01:12 AM: Message edited by: patboy ]

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patboy,

Can't understand how some US media don't inform properly american people.
Don't be surprised to hear that they aren't reporting what's going on with French Special Forces in Afghanistan. Up until a few months ago the US media seemed to have forgotten there was a war going on there at all. It was only after things started going badly that they started covering the area again. They were too busy covering the mess in Iraq apparently seeking some sort of atonement for allowing themselves to be used like a $2 whore to help get the war started in the first place.

Appologies to you journalists out there... I'm sure not all of you are grossly incompetent :D

Steve

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Scipio said -

Cassh, I think the point is that you simply don't like Germany, for whatever reason.
If you read what is written above you would find it difficult to support that view.

Having spent a fair bit of time in Germany and trained with Bundeswehr units in various NATO patrolling exercises I’d have to say that I wholly disagree with the view that you state I allegedly espouse. But if it makes you feel better to think I don’t like Germans – well, believe what you will. I think I can live with it. I know myself, and what I really think, and that’s all that matters.

I merely take the view that German ground forces are about the least likely in Europe to see conventional MIC combat in the near future.

As I stated above quite clearly – I expect them to be taking on a greater number of peace keeping roles in line with their size, power and stature in the international states system.

The German Bundeswehr has forces in Afghanistan, Kosovo, Kongo and a half dozend other countries, including Lebanon.
Yes – and as I clearly stated (in fact my main point) they are conducting “peace keeping” missions in each one of those theatres.

Fact is, that it is still difficult for Germany to send soldiers to foreign countries because of the Germa history in WWII
Hence why we were discussing the nature of the German constitution and its restrictions on foreign interventions and when and where this is now possible.

This is where Steve corrected me and referred me to the sticky where it clearly says the CMSF scenario is working on the basis that it is a United Nations mandated intervention – which makes the use of German forces entirely legal. Therefore, a German mechanised battlegroup is as feasible as any other nations in this scenario.

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Cassh,

I merely take the view that German ground forces are about the least likely in Europe to see conventional MIC combat in the near future
In theory.

Let's just say there was a big conventional war in 2007 or early 2008. Who would be the most able to participate? The "usual suspects" or the "least likely candidates"?

The two usual suspects, the US and the UK, are overstretched, overstressed, and overtired at the moment. Their equipment readiness is getting worse, their recruitment of new soldiers is on the decline. And there is no end in sight. The thought of either being in a position to contribute significant forces to a new fairly large scale conventional war are "daft" (I LOVE that word. Gotta remember to use it more frequently, perhaps in connection to automobiles ;) ).

OK, so if the usual providers of the bulk of the forces are out of action, or at least highly limited in terms of what they can provide, then who would be left? he ones that are least engaged right now. Who is the least engaged of all major forces in Europe? Germany, Italy, and France.

The conclusion I come to is if Europe is faced with a MAJOR threat/attack within the next year or two, Germany is going to have to participate whether it wants to or not. The ramifications for them NOT participating would be catastrophic for the EU, which is of paramount importance to the nation as a whole.

Let's hope it doesn't come to it and let's instead look at our nice, clean, "what if" scenario we've outlined in that sticky :D

Steve

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