Flanker15 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I seen it referenced a couple of times in the SF forums recently but I was wondering what ELOS is? Is it Enhanced Line of Site like from CMx1? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Trying to be first: http://www.battlefront-store.com:8080//index.php?option=com_myblog&show=Enhanced-vision.html&Itemid=213 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Ha, seems that I made it. Executive summary: ELOS means that instead of a single LOS check between two reference points hovering approximately 1.5 over the ground (up to 1.05), LOS is now checked from 5 height levels at the source to 5 height levels at the destination. This means, that a soldier going prone behind a low wall, e.g., both looses LOS and cannot be seen any more. During testing last night I was reminded of Operation Flashpoint when I sneaked a RPG team up to Strykers in rough terrain and could get them to pop-up and hit the Strykers, yet being able to dive to the ground again and survive. Big fun! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl Steiner Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Rollstoy, Does LOF work the same way? In other words, if they pop up from behind the wall, can they be shot, and if they drop down out of sight again, are they then in cover behind the wall? Then again, I am assuming this would only apply to area fire as a unit out of sight can't be targeted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Cpl Steiner: Then again, I am assuming this would only apply to area fire as a unit out of sight can't be targeted. This is the key of your question. I would have to set up a specific test for this situation, then we run into this pesky NDA issues. Also, I do not have a precise mental image of how different calibers penetrate walls currently. My gut feeling is that they will protect prone soldiers pretty well. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 deleted per user request 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Adam1: If we can't area fire at stuff behind walls that is a pretty big problem. What do you mean?! Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flanker15 Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Thanks! This will improve SF many fold. Also you can area fire stuff behind walls at the moment by just targeting the wall square, since the action squares include the area in front and behind the wall. This means that shots will hit the wall and perhapses penetrate to hit things on the other side. Of course with this new ELOS system tall units will be able to see over walls now if they are close enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 What will i have to buy to get ELOS ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Wiggum: What will i have to buy to get ELOS ? Since it will be in the next 1.06 patch, you will have to buy the original CM:SF game to get ELOS. In case you already bought CM:SF, you just have to wait until the 1.06 patch is released. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Rollstoy: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wiggum: What will i have to buy to get ELOS ? Since it will be in the next 1.06 patch, you will have to buy the original CM:SF game to get ELOS. In case you already bought CM:SF, you just have to wait until the 1.06 patch is released. Best regards, Thomm </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Wow, that is really great news. The explanation why it currently doesn't work as expected is exactly on the point. This is the good old Battlefront. Now i'm very confident, that the WWII release will become a huge success. Steve mentiones in the blog, that todays processors are often dual cores. Does that mean, patch v1.06 will use more than one core? :cool: And just a reminder, for the WWII development: Do not forget to take the turret height of hull-down tanks into acount of the hit-chance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Rollstoy: During testing last night I was reminded of Operation Flashpoint when I sneaked a RPG team up to Strykers in rough terrain and could get them to pop-up and hit the Strykers, yet being able to dive to the ground again and survive. Does this mean there will be new commands for infantry to change between the lowest three levels of ELOS? I mean can you tell a team to crawl first, then go to kneeling position, use weapon and hit the dirt? A little bit like Shoot & Scoot command of CMx1, but you'd move between those ELOS levels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Sorry, answering this question is outside of my authority. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 And what about my question? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Are there Screenshots where we can see the difference between 1.05 LOS and 1.06 ELOS ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I hope one day we'll see enhancement to area fire. IMO it's the LOS related feature in worst shape now if the low wall bug doesn't count. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Steiner14: And what about my question? Sorry, in this case I do not know the answer. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by Wiggum: Are there Screenshots where we can see the difference between 1.05 LOS and 1.06 ELOS ? Not yet. Best regards, Thomm 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis50 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Originally posted by SlowMotion: I hope one day we'll see enhancement to area fire. IMO it's the LOS related feature in worst shape now if the low wall bug doesn't count. In my opinion area fire works just as I would expect it to. Amount of ammo expended vs number of enemy hits seems to be pretty realistic to me. I'm happy with it. Will be interesting to see how 1.06 ELOS affects it. Gunz 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I've seen Bradley area fire hitting street surface when I ordered it to shoot at a building wall. Maybe it's those 8x8m grid centers or something, but it doesn't always shoot what it should. If this feature could be made to work like artillery's line target, that would make it great. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Cpl.Steiner, Does LOF work the same way? In other words, if they pop up from behind the wall, can they be shot, and if they drop down out of sight again, are they then in cover behind the wall?Yes. This is the primary benefit of the new system. Currently (Traditional LOS) requires abstractions to take into account stance and intervening terrain, such as walls. The new system (Enhanced LOS) is inherently designed to allow/disallow based on subtle terrain situations to a far greater degree. Obviously even 5 heights isn't like the way things are in the real world, so of course some abstractions are still needed. Just far fewer of them than before. Then again, I am assuming this would only apply to area fire as a unit out of sight can't be targeted.Here you have to remember the difference between Spotting and Targeting. If you've SPOTTED the unit behind the wall, you can TARGET it even if it is currently out of LOS. Your guys will just sit around and wait for the target to expose itself. This is a huge improvement over CMx1 where you could not target if you couldn't draw LOS it didn't matter if the unit was spotted or not. Related to this is Adam1's question. Or at least I think it is, because I'm not quite sure I understand it The angle of the targeting unit to the terrain is traced. Therefore, a unit below the height of a wall will not be able to see anything behind it unless the terrain elevations rise above the height of the wall. Conversely, a targeting unit above the height of the wall will be able to see beyond it to the degree of the height differential. Two examples: 1. A pool-table flat map with a wall running down the middle. A friendly unit goes Prone on one side. Any enemy unit that is also prone on the other side of the wall will not be seen. An enemy tank, which is higher than a wall of course, may be seen depending on how close it is to the wall and the friendly unit. 2. A friendly unit is on the top floor of a 4 story building and wall a significant distance away (say 100m?), terrain is perfectly flat. A prone infantry unit may be able to stay out of LOS/LOF if it is right up against the wall, but otherwise it will likely be completely exposed. Same situation but the wall is 8m away. The friendly unit on the 4th floor will be able to see any unit on the other side of the wall regardless of its stance. Now, this is how the game is supposed to work right now with Traditional LOS. However, the more extreme the angles are compared to what is trying to be achieved, the more "twitchy" establishing LOS/LOF becomes. That's because it has to rely upon extrapolations (abstractions) to compensate for the lack of LOS/LOF fidelity. The Enhanced LOS system greatly increases the fidelity and therefore the system is inherently less "twitchy". Perfect? I doubt it Probably need 20 height checks before all situations would be ironed out. But 5 is enough that I'm sure you guys will be quite happy with the results. Steiner 14, CM:SF does use as many processors as your system has, it just isn't optimized to take full advantage of them. To do this we need to recompile the code in a new compiler. We tried that in v1.05 and we lost 2 weeks to (deleted) Microsoft OS/compiler bugs. We'll try again when we feel there is time available to do it without people getting antsy Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Great, three cores are waiting then. Thanks for answering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Is ELOS going to crush my poor 5 year old single core PC? Currently the game runs just fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Phoenix, I certainly hope not. However, if significant decreases in speed are noted we will see if we can offer an option for Traditional LOS (what we have in v1.06 Beta 2, which means Low Wall problem fixed) and Enhanced LOS. We REALLY don't want to do this because it means supporting two very sensitive, touchy bits of code that produce rather different results. It would complicate things for us in ways we shudder to think about. BUT, if it means the difference between some people playing the game they bought, and not playing it at all... we'll have to do something. Thankfully, it's looking good that you'll be OK. Charles is using a 6 year old single core system and he seems to be happy with the performance Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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