iTunes model for MOD's in CM:SF.

[Peter Cairns]

This will go down like a lead ballon, but I'll put it in anyway.

BF should allow people to modify models such as textures as before, but you couldn't then use them in the game.

Instead in order to be used in the game, you would need to have them "Authorised" by BF who would pay you for it if it was posted for use.

So for example if you produced a very good Tiger 1 winter mod, BF would give you say $25 plus 50c per sale.

It would then be posted and anyone who wanted to use this in his game, could buy it for $1. Now to make a profit, BF would need to sell, 50 on the web site, by which time the designer would have made another $25.

IF at the end of the year 1,000 people had bought it then both BF and the designer would each have made $500.

I have no idea, if CM:SF is at a stage that it could build something like this in and as I said I bet most people will hate it, but it would make money for BF, and Mod makers would get paid...

Okay fire away people.

Peter.

[Michael Dorosh]

Isn't that up to BFC?

Why would they second guess their own research, or worse, yield it to a third party?

And why would I pay for models after the fact, especially if no one I know has them?

Would just create chaos for no real gain. Scenario designers would be leery of using them, and many would refuse to pay for them.

[Peter Cairns]

Michael,

It's just an idea, true it's up to BFC, but only a year or two back, the whole idea of something like iTUNES, would have seemed daft, but now it's one of the most profitable web sites in the world.

BF has said before that the majority of customers don't play PBEM games, so the "no one would have them" arguement doesn't necessarily rule it out.

Given that we are only talking about building textures and camo models you could play the game with or without them, after all what you see on your screen doesn't have to be the same as mine.

I see no reason why if I have plain green shermans, and grey panthers on my machine, you shouldn't have pink and purple ones if thats what you want. Surely the PBEM system just says it's a sherman, not all the details.

Peter.

Peter.

[Colin]

Actually iTunes itself isn't that profitable. At least not for Apple. Apple makes money on the iPods and the record companies make money on the songs.

<rant>

HOW THE HELL CAN RECORD COMPANIES STILL WANT PRICES TO GO UP WHEN THEY HAVE A DELIVERY MODEL THAT IS 99% PROFIT!?!

</rant>

In some ways, having free mods is a selling point for CM. I would think a better method would be to have a 'texture expansion' with the next module. I've never seen a game with a paid mod system. I don't know many people that would spend the $ to refit all their units with paid textures. You could easily spend $1000 making your $50 game look good, only to have a better looking texture released the day after.

[Peter Cairns]

How many people who bought CM even knew that there was the ability to add mod's .

It might be popular with users, but I can't say how it's a selling point, I don't even think it's mentioned on the box.

Peter.

as to iTunes, your right the record companies have a cheek asking to be paid more for something that is a cross between money for nothing and saving them a fortune.

.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Peter Cairns:

How many people who bought CM even knew that there was the ability to add mod's .

Just about everybody? Especially after CMBO. I think it is one of the questions new game buyers routinely ask nowadays - the number of mods available on third party websites for just about every commercial game would be evidence of that.

[MikeyD]

Though paying for mods would be in my own interest (last count I've done about 250+ mods for CMx1) the idea still rubs me the wrong way. Maybe I've got more old hippie in me than I thought, but I kinda 'dig' the idea of sharing my labors freely among my commune brothers. Going the ipod capitalist route would be 'selling out to The Man'.

Hey, far out bro!

[Peter Cairns]

MikeyD,

Well as your profile blanks out your occupation, I can't tell which if any man your have or haven't sold out to already.

Peter.

[MikeyD]

My occupation?

I work in advertising (cough, choke - yes, I'm one of the agents of satan!) but steadily working my way DOWN the corporate ladder, not up. My standing joke is if I go much lower in the company I'll have to take a Berlitz foreign language course in order to qualify for a position with the janitorial staff!

[Peter Cairns]

How dare someone in advertising talk bout "selling out to the man", hell Mikey have you no shame or decency, oh wait a minute I forgot, your in Advertising.....

Peter.

[cassh]

Hmmm... A scheme that could help BFC and give them an additional revenue stream, which in turn may allow them to turn round the CMx2 modules more rapidly for us... Yeah that's terrible.

Well done Peter, awesome idea.

MikeyD - in this case we'd all be the man so to speak, as we could all reap the rewards (more games faster) of this commercial activity.

I don't think making the mods exclusively "paid" would sit well with the community; but many of us would voluntarily buy them from BFC if they were well bundled and added flavour to the game.

Allowing normal modding to exist is vital as it increases the longevity of a game way beyond its natural lifespan; however, more sophisticated paid for 'professional' mods would work perfectly well along side the 'amateur' mods.

Without knowing the mechanics of the new engine's graphic and modelling it is difficult to ascribe parameters to what these mods could consist of exactly.

If a module-lite mod were available to change building swatches and structural models from Syrian/Levant to say temperate/developed urban or some other environment I would buy it without question as it would allow me to throw up all kinds of scenarios.

The ideal situation would be for BFC's 'professional' mods to be published between the release of the modules.

So for example after an ETO Market Garden module is released with lots of lovely Belgium/Dutch buildings a mod with costal defences and harbour/docks could be added via download to allow scenarios about the clearing of the Scheldt estuary to be made.

The unique selling point of these lite-module mods is that they could add additional functionality that standard mods cannot. i.e. in the Scheldt estuary expansion mod example above added terrain types/features such as dragons' teeth, hedgehogs, sea-mines, shingle, lock-gates, dock walls, cranes etc could be added into the scenario editor.

This may be seen as too similar to the modules, but I think if one restricted the mod pack to just submitted skin mods of a very high standard and some minimum extra functionality such as new terrain types one could turn them round very quickly with little impact if any on normal production.

This would establish both increased longevity for the game and more importantly get BFC some KFC (Ker-F***ing-Ching) to allow them to make us some really Gucci infantry dominated modules such as Stalingrad or Cassino!

[flamingknives]

You can get mods for CM?

[Abbott]

Originally posted by flamingknives:

You can get mods for CM?

I play without any MODS at all but have used some in the past. Back with CMBO and when CMBB was first released. I have no plans to use any in the future but may or may not do so.

[MikeyD]

If you get any CMx1 mods at all I really REALLY recommend replacing the PzIV skins if nothing else.

...And maybe th PzIIIs

...And maybe the Shermans

...And maybe the T34s

This topic of CMx2 mods probably won't be a really big deal for CMSF (how many flavors of Stryker can you paint?) but when it hits WWII and Outer Space the modding potential is going to skyrocket! I wonder if cmmods.com and ColumbusOHGamer will be able to continue providing his mod upload service for these games. He's aleady gone above and beyond the call of duty.

Ah, about the ipod style payment idea. I recall when BFC did the CMBO extras disk full of mods and new scenarios they were compelled, for legal reasons, to state that the extra disk was a free giveaway and was not part of the purchase price. Otherwise they'd fall into a snake's nest of copyright law and who's entitled to what percentage of what. So they may shy away from charging for 3rd party artwork just for that reason.

[WineCape]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

If you get any CMx1 mods at all I really REALLY recommend replacing the PzIV skins if nothing else.

...And maybe th PzIIIs

...And maybe the Shermans

...And maybe the T34s...

You see,

It's a drug. Somebody was of the opinion a few months ago that a great chunk of forum members either D/L the mods or yak away here - or both - without playing CM. For months on end. Perish the thought.

I personally look mostly for MikeyD and Andrew Fox's mods, repeatedly, diligently, oh, and Tarkus Interface mod is another must have. So many must haves...

But paying for them. No thank you. Then I'd rather leave BFC's mods as is out of the box. I'd rather BFC charge me more for creating their game artwork then pay someone for their incarnations, with respect.

[ January 19, 2006, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: WineCape ]

[TheNathan]

Not so much mods as textures, who in the world would pay money for extra textures? Even if there was the ability to make custom models for the game, you'd run into compatibility problems where User X does not have the same set of models for Y scenario as User Z does, and thus as Dorosh stated, would create massive chaos.

It's already hard enough to find compatible OpFlash games with the literally thousands of real honest-to-goodness modifications out there, throw in the fact that people now have to pay for custom models in addition to having the right set, and it's simply a mess.

Mind you I'm treating this scenario as if you could have brand new models, and not just re-skinned or re-modelled units, which as I said earlier, would simply not fly if people had to pay for them.

[Peter Cairns]

Interesting that no one from BF has joined the debate yet......

Peter.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I have used mods for CMBB, in fact some years ago I went through a phase of being a heavy user. However, one of the problems is that I like “all” the textures in a game to have something of the same feel to them, to look as though they shipped together. For example, to have the same saturation. This has rather limited my long-term use of mods to ones such as uniform mods where all in a game can be done to the same standard.

When it comes to CMX2/CMSF I am very much hoping that the increase in the quality of the graphics plus the fewer units modelled in each title or module will mean there is no need for mods. An example would be in some future Eastern Front game where the shipped AFVs would be fully weathered “out of the box”. Look very like the best 1/35 models as shipped.

There will always be those who wish for a particular camo scheme or look but for me I expect to use mods a lot less in CMX2 because the shipped units are far more likely to be fully weathered as sold.

Greatly looking forward to CMX2 in all its forms ,

All the best,

Kip.

[Andrew H.]

Originally posted by Peter Cairns:

Interesting that no one from BF has joined the debate yet......

Peter.

Probably because it would be very expensive to implement this when compared with any possible profit. Just setting up secure system to handle the transactions - both receiving the money and then transmitting it to the modder - would cost more than the $500 profit BFC would get from selling 1000 mods. Probably much more. I suppose you need some sort of code in the game so that it can recognize authorized mods - that's time and money, too, plus working with the modders so that they can make mods that will work with the authorization system. Also, there are tax consequences to doing this - the money BFC would receive is taxable; the money the would pay to the modders is deductible (but of course taxable to the modders).

And there is going to have to be webspace available for the mods, too (although what BFC already has may be enough; I don't know).

If, like iTunes, you're selling 20 million items, this scheme makes sense. But it really doesn't work for small scale transactions at all - the transactions costs are too high.

I suppose modders could set up a paypal account with a "donate" button on their own websites - this is probably the simplest method. But I don't think that this is what modders are really about.