Is it possible to model an Iranian conflict?

[TheNathan]

Well, I'm wondering if anyone here has a firm grasp on the military structure and equipment of the Iranian military, and whether or not the Syrian side in CMSF could be up to the task of simulating a American-Iranian war for the purposes of fan-made scenarios and campaigns.

My guess is it probably could, at least enough for a passing degree of realism. I also imagine that in such scenarios the (simulated) Iranians would fair quite a bit better than the Syrians if equipment and training, as well as terrain are suitably modified.

[KNac]

I think Syrian army is one of the "best" in terms of training within this sort of nations (this is an uneducated idea so I could be wrong), so I don't think would be a big difference of Iran army, and not much differences in weaponry at all.

So basicaly yes, I think it could be done.

[ August 15, 2007, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: KNac ]

[Truppenfuhrung]

Maybe the Iranian air force could be a little bit more relevant than Syrian air force (which is totally absent)...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iran/army.htm

[ptwobjb]

Not a chance.

I've flown in some exercises that model an attack on "random" Middle Eastern countries. US B-2s would make short work of the Iranian IADS. After that, it would be lights out for the Iranian AF, especially with the F-22 now operational.

They barely have the spare parts to keep their jets flying, and the ones they have are not intimidating.

There are some Air Forces that could challenge the US, but the Iranian AF is not one of them.

[Truppenfuhrung]

Originally posted by ptwobjb:

They barely have the spare parts to keep their jets flying, and the ones they have are not intimidating.

That's a very good point.

Logistic and maintenance are often underlook.

And the Azarakhsh fighter is simply reverse engineering from quite old planes (Tomcat, Phamtom).

[JasonC]

Yes you can readily simulate the Iranian ground forces with the Syrians in CMSF.

Iran has a few other capabilities that Syria does not, but not relevant in a ground battle. (I am thinking of things like SSMs capable of blocking the strait of Hormuz, mine warfare against tankers, and the like).

On air I agree with the previous poster. Iran is spending a lot to beef up air defense, but against the US it hardly matters. Not meant for that, it is meant to take away any "go it alone" strike option from Israel, and to a lesser extent to match Saudi capabilities (since they are competing to own Iraq after the US leaves). The relevant "beef up" here is modern Russian SAMs and radars, and most recently reports of 3 figure planned buys of advanced Russian fighters.

Still not a prayer against the USAF, though...

[TheNathan]

Ah, good news then. I wouldn't mind making a few scenarios and maybe a campaign or two based on an Iranian conflict. The Syrian conflict is, IMO, disgraceful and ill-conceived and the game would be done far more justice with a proper war like an Iranian conflict.

Once I get done with this Tonali Island scenario conversion I'm doing (Red on Red in an African shanty town) I'll do some research on the Iranian army and whatnot. Any of you fine fellows here happen to have any solid info on their capabilities or any links to some papers involving an Iran situation?

[Speedy]

Of course red airpower would be useful in an Iran-Iraq war scenario.

[TheNathan]

Sadly the red side doesn't have any airpower at all, completely nerfing a good deal of potential scenarios like the Iran-Iraq war.

Closest I have figured out is assigning airpower to blue side before switching to red vs. red. This gives one side American airpower that they can use (I think) but the other side (true red) is high and dry.

I had to substitute an Apache for a Hind in this Tonali scenario I'm making, but they are really two completely different aircraft and it really doesn't seem right.

[tankibanki]

Originally posted by TheNathan:

Sadly the red side doesn't have any airpower at all, completely nerfing a good deal of potential scenarios like the Iran-Iraq war.

Closest I have figured out is assigning airpower to blue side before switching to red vs. red. This gives one side American airpower that they can use (I think) but the other side (true red) is high and dry.

I had to substitute an Apache for a Hind in this Tonali scenario I'm making, but they are really two completely different aircraft and it really doesn't seem right.

Can't you give both sides air support in a Blue vs Blue battle, then change it to Red vs Red?

[Sergei]

Tankibanki is correct, you can have a mix of equipment on both sides. Not that both sides having air-to-ground support within the same battle would be likely, especially for third world countries.

But Iranian army would be impossible to model in CMSF, because they don't speak Arabic like Syrians and their taxis use a different shade of yellow, too.

[TheNathan]

Why damn, I never thought about the blue vs. blue option for airpower, that's a very clever work-around.

[Sgt Joch]

Iran-Iraq war scenarios are still possible in CMSF, although both Iraq and Iran had airpower, their CAS capability was abysmal and can be ignored all together.

regarding Syrian vs. Iranian forces, when you examine the equipment, training and capabilities of both nations, you will see that the Syrian army is as good or better than the Iranian army.

[TheNathan]

From what can see from the CIA World Factbook and Global Security, Iran is quite a bit more powerful than Syria, having a more powerful economy, similar levels of current manpower (OR slightly even more), a larger population, and vastly more beneficial terrain for a defensive war.

This is huge, as while the Syrians may be just as good (They seem pretty damn awful in CMSF) their strategic situation is absolutely abysmal and they have nowhere near the staying power of Iran strategically, and by extension tactically.

[Sgt Joch]

I was talking about their respective army and equipment.

I agree Iran is in a better strategic position because of its size and geography, similar, on a smaller scale of course, to the Soviet Union in WW2. It would take a lot of troops to conquer and occupy Iran.

Regarding how good the Syrians are in CMSF, I don't think the included scenarios necessarily do justice to the RL qualities/capabilities of their army (they do have some). I am finishing a scenario, which I will hopefully release this weekend, which features a more powerful, but still realistic, Syrian defender (shameless plug! )

[dpabrams]

I would rather see a CM that is based on the liberation of Iran, after the fact. That is to say one that modeled (past tense) the liberation of Iran from an Islamofashist Theocracy. Hopefully coming soon to the Mideast soon!

[TheNathan]

Agreed, Joch, Iran would likely be a much tougher nut to crack than Iraq or Syria.

Would be interested in playing that scenario of yours, though. I'd be very interested in seeing what the Syrians are really capable of.

[Truppenfuhrung]

Maybe we should design some Pakistan-US scenarios for Barack Obama...